Come on, get serious! I asked for unbiased and credible references. Two scholars from your country who are not even specialists in the field?(What are they engineers?) Imagine if I started citing Greek scholars in here? Why do you think the international academic community overlooked for decades what two engineers from your country found to be obvious? Oh, I forgot, everyone else is stupid. Come back to me when their 'theory' is peer reviewed and accepted.

You are obviously using the word negro as a derogatory term. Why dont you explain to the decent and civilized readers what is wrong with being a 'Negro' and what makes you superior to a 'Negro'.

Maknews: pay careful attention.
Osiris: who is the racist here?

ok you are right.... your ancestors aren´t the negros i agree.

but your really roots are from PONTOS YOU ARE christianized turk, that is what you really are, do you denial this FACT too ???

You didn't answer my question. It was not mutually exclusive ... the answer to that explains many things. Here is hoping that you would like to enter into reasoned dialogue after you respond.

Risto the Great

And you did not answer any of my questions. But,for the sake of the reasoned dialogue here is your chance to educate me Risto. Tell me about Justinian, first or second?, and his ethnic background and the language he wrote in.

That may be the case but the presence of 'Sklavenoi' was recorded by others ca. 586 AD and I doubt very much that this is the year they decided to 'arrive'.

As for whether the language was written -- it seems not, or at least there is no evidence to indicate that it was. But then this is the case for most societies. As for the ancient Greeks they took their writing from the Phoenicians and the Ancient Macedonians in turn adopted their writing from Koine -- the Lingua Franca of the times.

As for Macedonia being 'de-Hellenised' that's quite obvious. The same is true of Hellas -- it too was 'de-Hellenised' until an artificial new 'Hellenism' was imposed on people subsequent to 1928.

It's painful to watch adults in 2006 claim to be the descendants of the ancient Greeks and ancient Macedonians. Why are modern Greeks so terrified to admit they derive from Slavs, Vlach, Arvanites, etc.? Everybody knows it anyway, you're only lying to yourselves.

How is it that Slavs, Vlach and Arvanites, etc., who become Hellenised are considered 'pure Greeks' that are descended from the ancient Greeks? Just what kind of ethnic alchemy is that? How is it that imported Christians from Asia Minor and the Black Sea can become instant Greeks? The Turks have been in Germany longer than the new Christian refugees have been in Greece and Aegean Macedonia. None of this Greek stuff makes any sense and it will not stand up to scrutiny.

Here you go http://www.unet.com.mk/ancient-macedoni ... ici8-e.htm

http://www.unet.com.mk/ancient-macedoni ... ici3-e.htm

Here's more for you Chris Filipov.

http://www.unet.com.mk/ancient-macedoni ... ici2-e.htm

http://www.unet.com.mk/ancient-macedoni ... ici9-e.htm


The evidence is right in front of you. If you choose to deny it then by all means remain ignorant.

You see ... I was answering your questions but you didn't want to listen.

Here, you can read about Justinian on the following link:
http://orthodoxwiki.org/Justinian
(Note the slavic descent bit)

What you most likely do not know about this man is that he could neither read nor write. I wonder what you think of this. Perhaps you might think this person was of limited intellect. Clearly this was not the case. So how does a leader leave such a mark on civilisation and yet not have what appears to be a basic level of read/write capability? We assume these abilities are a measure of social standing in this present day and age.

In your wildest imagination, could you possibly comprehend a situation where written language was not as prevalent as now. Could you imagine a situation where everything was written in whatever the language scholars were using at the time. They were using Latin at the time ... I know .. I know ... it wasn't for a very long time ... maybe 1800 years maximus (oops ... maximum).

So, when you read Latin texts from germany and england ... do you automatically assume they are Romans who have written the text? I think you have exactly one poofteenth of intelligence and agree with me that the written language has nothing to do with the ethnicity of the people.

It is at this point that I would like to introduce another issue. The number of written languages in the world at the time you have decided to question were quite possibly able to to be counted on one hand. Certainly this is not the case nowadays. With your (same) poofteenth of intellect, do you accept the possibility that written language was not held in the same regard as it is in this day and age. You know ... something best left for the academics or something.

Now tell me about all of the written greek texts over the 500 years under ottoman rule in greece proper. How many can you count? This was a time when many written languages existed and there is barely a whisper to record the daily goings on during this time. So you tell me what you would expect to learn about the ethnicity of the ancient Macedonians in light of the above information.

Risto the Great

Maknews: answer this question:

It seems that the large majority of the participants in your forum hold the exact same views you accuse Greeks of being brainwashed naive and ignorant for holding. Do you think that modern Macedonians are descendants of the Ancient Macedonians? Why dont you answer this question? Are you afraid you will insult the blind nationalist mantra here?

You also seem to over generalize way too much. I do not deny that the Greek culture assimilated some non Greek population groups, but there are a very large number of Modern Greeks that derive from Greek ancestors for numerous generations. To think otherwise is naive and uneducated. Perhaps you would like to enlighten me on which modern identity has not assimilated other population groups?

Afterall why did seemingly countless contemporary writers that travelled through the region at around the turn of last century overlook and fail to record what your nationalist historiography claims was an ethnic Macedonian population that composed the vast majority in the region? Could it be that your modern Macedonian identity incorporates people whose ancestors identified as something else in the past too? But of course the dozens upon dozens of writers and scholars from the turn of last century that failed to record a Macedonian population were all lying for some reason, right?

I also find it laughable that you are lecturing Greeks for espousing notions of 'genetic purity' when you are the administrator of a website that advertised and henceforth promoted a now debunked genetic study in himmleresque fashion to bolster theories about your own people's 'genetic' ancestry. To save face I suppose you had to post the fact that the study was debunked by several reknown genetic researchers. But didnt you just love it when you initially found a now debunked study showing how 'european' your people were and how 'sub-saharan' my people were. You loved it enough to post it on your website right? Now we have you giving lectures from your morally superior pedestal accusing others for being brainwashed and stupid for espousing opinions that center around genetic lineages.

It amazes me that you run a website with a large number of participants that espouse the exact same views you accuse Greeks of holding. Yet you lecture one group about how stupid and brainwashed they are while you give the other group a green light and a platform to propagate unsupported nationalist theories This double standard only shows me that you have a nationalist agenda too Mr. Maknews.

Why dont you forward these links to places like Cambridge, Harvard and Stanford so that some unbiased and credible scholar can write a peer reviewed publication that relates modern Macedonians with ancient Macedonians. Forgive me, but I take these sources of information just as seriously as you would if I directed you to a nationalist website that was located in Greece.

Maknews: this is another example of one of your compatriots trying to relate your people to the ancient Macedonians. This is the EXACT same behavior you scold Greeks for and you call them ignorant and brainwashed for. Where is the objectivity here, Maknews?

Listen up Hristo Filipov. Maknews never hid his true feelings about what most of us think on here. None of us in here are claiming DIRECT ANCESTRY to the ancient Macedonians. This is ludicrous since your state and mine had Ottoman Turks occupying and raping everything in sight for 500 years. Do we carry over some ancient blood. Sure we do. It's also riddled with whatever else is in the balkans or what has passed through it. This forum is a forum for free thought. You and anyone else can believe what they will.

Excuse me but this is relating the ancient Macedonian language with modern. Do you honestly think that any language today doesn't carry over any ancient language? This is not nationalistic as I have stated. Your abuse on here from other members is scorning you from looking at this evidence before you and I'm sorry you are not strong enough to ignore your detractors.
We (Macedonians) do not need clarification to know that the ancients were not Greek. You obviously do. So you can send this to Cambridge,Oxford,Yale,and whereever else. I could care less about some idiot lemming in a university that is just following a current trend of "Challenge nothing and go along with everything".

Oh please. This forum is for free thought? I am expressing my free thought without directly or purposely offending anyone peronally and you change my name to ridicule me. I have been called a Negro, a moron, a brainwashed idiot, to mention but a few names when expressing my free thought. THIS IS A FORUM FOR FREE THOUGHT FOR THOSE WHO GENERALLY AGREE WITH THE MANTRA all others are discouraged to post and encouraged to leave by having their name changed (Hristo Filipov?) and being called a long list of names. Try your self righteous crap with someone else.

Do you think that is what encouraged my people to leave what is now greece? You know, when they forcibly changed our names. C'mon, lighten up ... just because we don't let you self-identify with a given name doesn't mean we completely despise you.

Risto the Great

Ill answer you tomorow. Its late here and I need all my rest so that my pooftenth of intellect can muster up the huge arguments I will need here.
Plus I have surpassed my insult reception quota for the day. You guys almost, and I mean almost, had me convinced that im a confused albanian-turk-slav-african. Thank god for this progressive and objective free thought forum.

I don't believe any group is descended from the ancient Macedonians or ancient Thracians or ancient Greeks or ancient Illyrians, etc. The gene pool of these bygone societies has been dispersed over the last couple of millennia. We may all share their genes but we are not them.


There is an even a larger number of modern Greeks that derive from Hellenised Arvanites, Vlach, Slav, Turk, Venetian, Georgian, Armenian, etc. Once you add in the newly imported Christians from Asia Minor and the Black Sea that ethnic soup becomes even broader. Don't give me this nonsense about modern Greeks being the descendants of the ancient Greeks, that nonsense is strictly for domestic consumption.

Face facts Chris, the ancient Greeks vanished. Athens was abandoned and eventually became a ghost town with a few Albanians living in among the ruins of the Parthenon. The new Greece (ca. 1828) attempts to usurp the culture of the ancient Greeks but this mythology is not based in reality.

And ... 3 posts on this thread without responding to my serious dialogue. Did I really crush your hopes and ambitions that easily?

Risto the Great

Geez man calm down. You remind me of the late Dikigoros. It's only funny how your name looks like its been changed to make it seem more greek. Just my opinion. Hence Chris Philipou=Hristo Filipov.
By the way I have erased all of the "negro" terms that Dimko shot at you. Racsim should not be tolerated here at all. Especially when your kinsmen come in here with their casual "slavomacedonian" this "slavomacedonian" that.
If you want to adress this then begin a new thread in the General discussion area. This is for History.

Listen, Risto, I know that some of your people suffered at the hands of Greek governments of past decades, but what do you expect me to do? I had nothing to do with those governments or those people. Do you know that many Greeks suffered at the hands of those governments too? Are your people, as a whole, completely innocent from any wrong doings in the Balkans of all places? Everyone suffered in one way or another. Do you care about the thousands upon thousands of Turks that were killed and removed from their homes or do you care about the Greeks that were massacred in places like Chios and the Turkish coast where tens of thousands were slaughtered and chased out. Imagine if everyone in the new generation held their historical oponents responsible for the actions of their governments of 80+ years ago? Where will we get? You disliked me from the outset, otherwise you wouldnt have launched all those insults. Why? Because I am Greek and we dont agree on history. That is sad, dont you think?