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 Post subject: Greek Acts against the Macedonians (chronicles reviews)
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2007 08:28 
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Location: annexed Macedonia (1912)
(1912 – 1994)

By Peter Medichkov

The following chronicles the methods employed by Greece in its effort to eradicate the centuries old Macedonian ethnic presence in Aegean Macedonia (Greek Macedonia) in the name of Greek territorial expansion. Specific laws and decrees are presented against the backdrop of relevant historical events affecting Macedonians in Aegean Macedonia.

The chronology begins in 1912 when Greece, for the first time ever, came into possession of Macedonian territory and this by force of arms, almost a decade after the 1903 Ilinden (St. Iliya Day) Uprising lead by the IMRO (Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization) in a failed effort to free Macedonia from the Ottoman yoke.

The ominous prophecy of Harilaos Trikoupis, Greek Prime Minister from 1882 to 1895, foretold what the neighboring Greek state had in mind for Macedonia and its people:

"When the Great War comes, Macedonia will become Greek or Bulgarian, according to who wins. If it is taken by the Bulgarians, they will make the population Slavs. If we take it, we will make all of them Greeks".

1912 Balkan Wars
Irredentist Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria and Montenegro drive a crumbling Ottoman Empire out of the Balkans and pursue territorial expansion into Macedonia. Greek army enters Aegean Macedonia ostensibly to "liberate" Macedonia from the Ottoman.

1913
The Greek, Serbian, Bulgarian alliance breaks down over competing claims for Macedonia. Bulgaria miscalculates and attacks Serbia and Greek armies. Ottoman forces rejoin the war against Bulgaria. Bulgaria defeated, loses territorial gains in Macedonia.

From "liberation to tyranny", Greek army commences savage and bloody "ethnic cleansing" of the towns of Kukush, Doiran, Demir-Hisar and Serres in the Aegean Macedonia.

160 Macedonian villages burned, and atrocities committed
. Mass exodus of refugees.

Treaty of Bucharest (Aug. 10, 1913), ends the War and partitions Macedonia.

Greece refers to conquered Macedonian lands as the "new territories" under "military administration". Not yet officially incorporated into the Kingdom of Greece.

Military occupation augmented by influx of administrators, educators; police brought from Greece.

Professor R.A. Reiss reports to the Greek government: "Those whom you would call Bulgarian speakers I would simply call Macedonians...Macedonian is not the language they speak in Sofia...I repeat the mass of inhabitants there (Macedonia) remain simply Macedonians."

1917
LAW 1051 Greece inaugurates new administrative jurisdictions for governing newly acquired lands in Aegean Macedonia.

1919 Treaty of Versailles (Paris)
England and France ratify the principles of the Bucharest Treaty and endorse the partition of Macedonia.

Greece pursues the forced expulsion and denationalization of Macedonians and begins colonization by transfering “Greeks” into Aegean Macedonia.

Article 51 of Treaty of Versailles espouses equality of civil rights, education, language, and religion for all national minorities which Greece violates and ignores.

Neuilly Convention and forced exchange of populations. About 70,000 Macedonians expelled from Aegean Macedonia to Bulgaria and 25,000 Greeks transfered from Bulgaria to Aegean Macedonia.

Greek Commission on Toponyms issues instructions for choosing Hellenized names for Macedonian places in Aegean Macedonia.

1920
Greek Ministry of Internal Affairs publishes booklet: "Advice on the change of the names of municipalities and villages" in Aegean Macedonia.

1925
76 names of Macedonian villages and towns in Aegean Macedonia Hellenized since 1918 by Greek authorities.

League of Nations pressures on Greece to extend rights to Macedonian minority.

ABECEDAR Primer printed in Athens for use by Macedonian school children in Aegean Macedonia. Written in Latin alphabet and reflects the Macedonian language spoken in Bitola-Lerin (Florina) district in Western Aegean Macedonia.

Serbs and Bulgarians protest to League of Nations. Primer undermines their claim that Macedonians are Serbs and Bulgarians respectively.

Greece counters with last minute cable to League: "the population.....knows neither the Serbian nor the Bulgarian language and speaks nothing but a Slav-Macedonian idiom."

Greece "retreats" so as to preserve Balkan alliances. Primer is destroyed after League of Nations delegates leave Salonika (Solun).

Thereafter, Greece denies existence of Macedonians. Refers to Macedonians as "Slavophone Greeks", "Old Bulgarians" and many other appellations but not as Macedonians.

1926
Legislative Orders in Government Gazette #331 orders Macedonian names of towns, villages, mountains changed to Greek names.

1927
Cyrillic inscriptions in churches, tombstones and icons rewritten or destroyed. Church services in the Macedonian language are outlawed.

Macedonians ordered to abandon personal names and under Duress adopt Greek names assigned to them by the Greek state.

1928
1, 497 Macedonian place names in Aegean Macedonia Hellenized since 1926.

English Journalist V. Hild reveals, "The Greeks do not only persecute living Slavs (Macedonians)..., but they even persecute dead ones. They do not leave them in peace even in the graves. They erase the Slavonic inscriptions on the headstones, remove the bones and burn them."

1929
Greek Government enacts law where any demands for national rights for Macedonians are regarded as high treason.

LAW 4096 directive on renaming Macedonian place names.

1936
Reign of terror by fascist dictator General Metaxas, (1936-40). Macedonians suffer state terrorism and pogroms.

Thousands of Macedonians jailed, sent to internal exile (EXORIA) on arid, inhospitable Greek islands, where many perish. Their crime? Being ethnic Macedonian by birth.

LAW 6429 reinforces Law 4096 on Hellenization of toponyms (place names).

DECREE 87 accelerates denationalization of Macedonians.


Greek Ministry of Education sends "Specially trained" instructors to accelerate conversion to Greek language.

1938
LAW 23666 bans the use of the Macedonian language and strives to erase every trace of the Macedonian identity.

Macedonians fined, beaten or jailed for speaking Macedonian. Adults and school children further humiliated by being forced to drink castor oil when caught speaking Macedonian.

LAW 1418 reinforces previous laws on renaming.

1940
39 more place-names Hellenized since 1929.

1945
LAW 697 more regulations on renaming toponyms in Aegean Macedonia.

1947
LAW L-2 citizens suspected of opposing Greek government in Civil War stripped of their citizenship, including relatives, arbitrarily and without due process.

1948
LAW M properties confiscated from citizens who fought against government and those accused of assisting.

28,000 child refugees, mostly Macedonians, from areas of heavy fighting evacuated to Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria and Romania. Greece denies their right of return to this day.

RESOLUTION 193C (III) United Nations Resolution calls for repatriation to Greece of child refugees.

U.N. UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS ARTICLE 19:
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive an impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

DECREE 504 continues property confiscations of exiles and colonization of Aegean Macedonia with people from Turkey, Egypt and other parts of Greece. Parcels of land given to the colonists along with financial incentives.

1959
LAW 3958 allows confiscation of property of those who left Greece and did not return within five years.

Several villages in Aegean Macedonia forced to swear "Language Oaths" to speak only Greek and renounce their mother Macedonian tongue.

1962
DECREE 4234 reinforces past laws regarding confiscated properties of political exiles and denies them right to return.

1968
EUROPEAN COMMISSION ON HUMAN RIGHTS accuses Greece of human rights abuses.

1969
Council of Europe declares Greece "undemocratic, illiberal, authoritarian, and oppressive". Greece forced to resign from Council of Europe under threat of expulsion.

Military Junta continues the policy of colonizing the confiscated lands in Aegean Macedonia. Land handled over to persons with a "proven patriotism" for Greece.

European Convention For the Protection of Human Rights and Freedoms signed by Greece states: ARTICLE 10(1) “Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers”.

1976
DECREE 233 suspends about 150 past decrees, government decisions and laws since 1913. Regulations for the confiscation of properties belonging to Macedonian political exiles not affected.

1979
135 places renamed in Aegean Macedonia since 1940. The Greek vigil regarding names is an indicator of the Macedonian ethnic identity in Aegean Macedonia.

1982
Greek internal security police urges intensive campaign to wipe out remaining Macedonian language and consciousness in Aegean Macedonia.

LAW 106841 political exiles who fled during the Civil War and were stripped of their citizenship are allowed to return providing they are "Greek by ethnic origin". The same rights are denied to Macedonian political exiles born in the Aegean Macedonia.

U.N. UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS ARTICLE 17, “No one can be deprived of his own property against his will”.

1985
DECREE 1540, Political exiles who fled during Civil War allowed to reclaim confiscated lands provided they are "Greeks by ethnic origin". Same rights denied to Macedonian exiles born in Aegean Macedonia.

U.N. UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS ARTICLE 13, “Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, as well as to return to his own country”.

1986
International writers' organization, PEN, condemns Greece's denial of the existence of Macedonians and their language.

Greece escalates climate of fear in Aegean Macedonia.

Greece officially calls the Republic of Macedonia as the “Republic of Skopje", after the name of its capital city; and Macedonians are called "Skopjans".

The term "Skopjans" used to label Greek citizens who declare themselves as ethnic Macedonians. "Skopjans" laced with hatred, and racism. It connotes a traitor to Hellenism.

1990
CSCE COPENHAGEN CONFERENCE ON THE HUMAN DIMENSION, to which Greece is a signatory, states in ARTICLE 32: "Persons belonging to national minorities have the right freely to express, preserve, and develop their ethnic, cultural, linguistic, or religious identity and to maintain and develop their culture in all its aspects, free of any attempts as assimilation against their will". ARTICLE 33: "Participating states will protest the ethnic, cultural, linguistic and religious identity of national minorities...and create conditions for the promotion of that identity".

GREEK HIGH COURT DECISION 19 refuses registration of "CENTER FOR MACEDONIAN CULTURE" in Florina (Lerin). Appeal is turned down by High Appeals Court in Salonika. Further appeal dismissed by Supreme Administrative Council of Greece in Athens.

1991
CSCE MEETING ON NATIONAL MINORITIES IN GENEVA, in which Greece participated states: "Issues concerning national minorities...are matters of legitimate international concern and consequently do not constitute exclusively an internal affair of the respective State...Participating States reaffirm, and will not hinder the exercise of, the right of persons belonging to national minorities to establish and maintain their own educational, cultural and religious institutions, organizations and associations".

Belligerent anti-Macedonian propaganda incites Greek population into a state of chauvinistic hysteria.

Translation from Greek: "Hang the Skopje Gypsies"

1992
Greece and Serbia conspire to overthrow and partition the Republic of Macedonia.

1993
Macedonian human rights activists Hristos Sidiropoulos and Tasos Boulis were prosecuted under Greek Panel Code: Article 36, Para 191; disseminating false information; Para 192; inciting citizens to disturb the peace. Their crime? Declaring themselves as Macedonians in an interview for Greek magazine ENA.

Macedonian human rights activist and priest Nikodimos Tsarknias derobed and expelled by Greek Orthodox Church because of his human rights activities. Tsarknias refused a Greek bribe which would have elevated him to bishop in 1989. He received death threats.

1994
Extremists of Australia's Greek Community burn two Macedonian churches, after Australian recognition of Macedonia.

Greece continues to deny the existence of Macedonians in Aegean Macedonia despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Greece continues repressive and unrelenting policies against Macedonians in Aegean Macedonia despite objections by international human rights organizations.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

good work @Peter Medichkov !!!

we ethnic macedonians will never forget this terrible act of brutality from the NouveauGreeks occupiers :evil:

_________________
12/21/2012 @11:11p.m. , what will happen ?

--------------------------------------------------------
1) Macedonians belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum...
2) Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranenan substratum...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2007 09:07 
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Peter is from Greece and knows only too well how the Macedonians there have been mistreated.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2007 09:12 
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maknews wrote:
Peter is from Greece and knows only too well how the Macedonians there have been mistreated.

hopefully he dont gets any trouble now.

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12/21/2012 @11:11p.m. , what will happen ?

--------------------------------------------------------
1) Macedonians belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum...
2) Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranenan substratum...


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PostPosted: 19 Apr 2007 09:20 
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You wouldn't believe how many problems Peter had to deal with so that he could stand up for what was right. The grkomani were all over him.


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PostPosted: 19 Apr 2007 09:27 
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tell him...we buy him a spycam and he have to record all the pressure from the NouveauGreeks....following we send this indignities to the NGO´s

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12/21/2012 @11:11p.m. , what will happen ?

--------------------------------------------------------
1) Macedonians belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum...
2) Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranenan substratum...


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PostPosted: 19 Apr 2007 10:22 
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Where are the denials greeks?
Anything blatantly wrong with the timeline? Are you still proud of your country?
Do you think it would have achieved what it did with the native population without such brutal measures?

Feel free to answer even one question if the others embarass you.

Risto the Great


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PostPosted: 19 Apr 2007 19:29 
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something stupid will come 4 sure, just wait....

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12/21/2012 @11:11p.m. , what will happen ?

--------------------------------------------------------
1) Macedonians belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum...
2) Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranenan substratum...


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PostPosted: 20 Apr 2007 00:13 
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dimko-piperkata wrote:
something stupid will come 4 sure, just wait....
These pricks are proud of it.

Risto the Great


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PostPosted: 20 Apr 2007 04:39 
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Vergina wrote:
your people


Which people are they?

Quote:
Greece is moving forward :clap:


You can't even say our name, so how are you moving forward?

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 Post subject: Re: Greek Acts against the Macedonians (chronicles reviews)
PostPosted: 20 Apr 2007 21:06 
dimko-piperkata wrote:
By Peter Medichkov



From "liberation to tyranny", Greek army commences savage and bloody "ethnic cleansing" of the towns of Kukush, Doiran, Demir-Hisar and Serres in the Aegean Macedonia.

160 Macedonian villages burned, and atrocities committed. Mass exodus of refugees.


Form Carnegie Report it is clear that ALL THE ABOVE VILLAGES WERE BULGARIAN. So, why Medichkov says shamelessly blatant lies ?
Actually, Carnegie reports have found NO Macedonians anywhere, only Bulgarians.

I quote from Carnegie Report :
“NO. 43. ANASTASIA PAVLOVA, a widow of Ghevgheli.
Shortly before the outbreak of the second war I was staying with my daughter, a Bulgarian school teacher in the village of Boinitsa. A Greek lady came from Salonica, and distributed money and uniforms to the Turks of the place some six or eight days before the outbreak of the second war. She also called the Bulgarians of the village together, and told them that they must not imagine that this village would belong to Bulgaria. She summoned the Bulgarian priest, and asked him if he would become a Greek. He replied, "We are all Bulgarians and Bulgarians we will remain." “…………….

“No. 52.--A. BURNED VILLAGES IN BULGARIAN TERRITORY, DISTRICT OF STRUMNITSA
The list of burned villages which follows will be found to be accurate, in the sense that it includes no villages which have not been burned. But it is far from complete, save as regards the Kukush and Strumnitsa regions. Many other Bulgarian villages were burned,
(Page 315)
particularly in the Serres and Drama districts. In many cases we have not been able to discover the exact number of houses in a village. It will be noted that the list includes and a few Turkish villages in Bulgarian territory burned by the Greeks, and a few villages burned by the Servians. The immense majority of the villages are, however, Bulgarian villages burned by the Greek army in its northward march.
The number of burned villages included in this list is 161, and the number of houses burned is approximately 14,480.”

League of Nations pressures on Greece to extend rights to Macedonian minority.
ABECEDAR Primer printed in Athens for use by Macedonian school children in Aegean Macedonia. Written in Latin alphabet and reflects the Macedonian language spoken in Bitola-Lerin (Florina) district in Western Aegean Macedonia.
Serbs and Bulgarians protest to League of Nations. Primer undermines their claim that Macedonians are Serbs and Bulgarians respectively.
Greece counters with last minute cable to League: "the population.....knows neither the Serbian nor the Bulgarian language and speaks nothing but a Slav-Macedonian idiom."
Greece "retreats" so as to preserve Balkan alliances. Primer is destroyed after League of Nations delegates leave Salonika (Solun).
Thereafter, Greece denies existence of Macedonians. Refers to Macedonians as "Slavophone Greeks", "Old Bulgarians" and many other appellations but not as Macedonians.


RIGHT ! I wonder why you DID NOT APPLAUD, dear Mr. DIMKO, when I HAVE POSTED ALL THIS MANY TIMES !!!!!!!
And Medichkov forgets that Serbia threatened war and broke the 1913 alliance !


Thousands of Macedonians jailed, sent to internal exile (EXORIA) on arid, inhospitable Greek islands, where many perish. Their crime? Being ethnic Macedonian by birth.

Overexaggeration. Quite natural, if take into account that Medichkov shamelessly names the Bulgarian villages as Macedonian !!!!!!

28,000 child refugees, mostly Macedonians, from areas of heavy fighting evacuated to Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria and Romania. Greece denies their right of return to this day.
RESOLUTION 193C (III) United Nations Resolution calls for repatriation to Greece of child refugees.

Resolution taken after Greek pressure. We wanted the children back before they would be turned in Communist Commisars, the modern Janissaries.

1968
EUROPEAN COMMISSION ON HUMAN RIGHTS accuses Greece of human rights abuses.
1969
Council of Europe declares Greece "undemocratic, illiberal, authoritarian, and oppressive". Greece forced to resign from Council of Europe under threat of expulsion.
Military Junta continues the policy of colonizing the confiscated lands in Aegean Macedonia. Land handled over to persons with a "proven patriotism" for Greece.
European Convention For the Protection of Human Rights and Freedoms signed by Greece states: ARTICLE 10(1) “Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers”.

During 1967-74 an American-supported military Junta governed Greece. All the above resolutions were made after protests by Greeks in exile. So the man brings coals to Newcastle, as usual.

So far for Medichkov. As for the lamentations for changing toponyms, IN OUR LAND WE CAN DO AS WE LIKE.
In Carnegie Report a city named Uskub is mentioned. Today it is Skopje, and rightly so, you have the right to name it as you want.

Why Greece did not have the same right ?????????????
SOURCE :
Habsburg H-Net Discussion Network
Carnegie Report, the Greek Army and Bulgarian Peasants during the Second Balkan War, 1913
From: http://www.h-net.org/~habsweb/sourcetexts/greeks1.htm
The Greek Army and Bulgarian Peasants during the Second Balkan War


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PostPosted: 21 Apr 2007 01:00 
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Gold! Andrew, thanks for taking the time to be utterly predictable.
You are still concerned about Macedonians being referred to as bulgarians aren't you. Why are you so confused about this? Is it because your native language which is unintelligible to a normal greek is still referred to (desperately) as "greek". Nice to be part of a team I suppose.

We have no need to be part of the "bulgarian team". One day when you learn yet another language (in addition to the turkish dialect & greek) like Macedonian you will realise the differences between the languages. But you, like many historians, will continue to struggle with this.

Here is an idea, since you base your existence on this forum under a gutter proposition that greece recognises us but with another name, how about the "slavophones" in greece start calling themselves bulgarians and are allowed bugarian schools and restoration of place names and tombstones and church affiliations. Can it happen in a country like your adopted country? Who do you think would get killed first Andrew? The teachers in the schools or the students? Is your country normal Andrew? Are you normal Andrew? Is "normal" different in greece Andrew?

Risto the Great


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 Post subject: Re: Greek Acts against the Macedonians (chronicles reviews)
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2007 08:51 
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Andreas Syggros wrote:
Form Carnegie Report it is clear that ALL THE ABOVE VILLAGES WERE BULGARIAN. So, why Medichkov says shamelessly blatant lies ?


Mr Medichkov was born and raised in Aegean Macedonia and knows exactly who the Macedonians are. Medichkov is correct -- it's the Carnegie visitors to Macedonia that didn't get it right.


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PostPosted: 21 Apr 2007 11:10 
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from memory a british officer called evans writes in his memoirs, i asked the villager what he was and my greek interpretor piped in. he is bulgarian wheras the man had distinctly said makedonets.

can any one on the forum help me with the name of the book, whre i saw the above.


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PostPosted: 21 Apr 2007 17:15 
Risto the Great wrote:
You are still concerned about Macedonians being referred to as bulgarians aren't you. Why are you so confused about this?


I am NOT, Great (!!) Risto.

The widow of Gevgheli in 1912 says that. Gevgheli is today in RoM, as you know !

"NO. 43. ANASTASIA PAVLOVA, a widow of Ghevgheli. ....................
"We are all Bulgarians and Bulgarians we will remain"

Stop bubbling nonsense and reply that, if you can !!!


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 Post subject: Re: Greek Acts against the Macedonians (chronicles reviews)
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2007 17:25 
maknews wrote:
Mr Medichkov was born and raised in Aegean Macedonia and knows exactly who the Macedonians are. Medichkov is correct -- it's the Carnegie visitors to Macedonia that didn't get it right.


I like you Maknews !

Is it as you say, OR IS MEDICHKOV POLUTED BY PROPAGANDA wishing to show all Macedonian Slavs as Macedonians ?

Carnegie Report is a document that you cannot defy. It says nothing about Slavic people in Kastoria, Florina or Aridaia. IT IS IN THESE AREAS that real Macedoninas could be found, i.e. people who from end of 1890 begun to create a dinstinct Macedonian national identity. (*)

On the other hand, do not even try to change the date of birth of Mac national identity in the Aegean: Another Macedonian from the Aegean, Voskopoulos, clearly declares that in his website.

May be in more northern areas, as in Skopje, the Mac national identity was born earlier. You must know better. Why not then resolve the problem ? Call youselves North-Macedonians and I applaud !

(*)
[ The small area where these Macedonians were to be found accounts for their small numbers, that every Macedonian in this FORUM stubbornly denies, speaking about 'hundreds of thousands' of Macedonians. So, a propaganda lie is exposed.
The Carnegie Report does not say anything about Macedonian villages burnt or people killed. So, another Gross Lie about an alleged "genocide' of the Macedonians is proved beyond reasonable doubt.
Thank you Mr. DIMKO ! Had I PRESENTED Medichkov, I would have to face a hail of insults ! ]


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 Post subject: Re: Greek Acts against the Macedonians (chronicles reviews)
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2007 18:50 
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Andreas Syggros wrote:
Is it as you say, OR IS MEDICHKOV POLUTED BY PROPAGANDA wishing to show all Macedonian Slavs as Macedonians ?

Mr Medichkov is from Modern Greece. This is a country that has a ruthless policy of assimilating Macedonians and forcing them to present as 'Greeks'.

There was no 'propaganda' to convert the 'Voulgaroi' into 'Makedontsi'. The intense and debased propaganda in Greece aims to convert Macedonians into artificial 'Ellines'.

The Carnegie Report was good as far as it went, but as is plainly obvious Greece does not have a problem with a 'Bulgarian Minority' it has a problem with a 'Macedonian Minority'.

And if you cross your Northern Border you will not find 'Voulgaroi' which you confuse with 'Slavs' anyway. You will find ethnic Macedonians. Ditto for Pirin and parts of Albania.

I appreciate that it is Greek policy to misrepresent Macedonians as 'Greeks' and those that resist assimilation are referred to as 'Voulgaroi'. That's just traditional Greek vulgarity.

Nowadays, Bulgaria has learned to do the same thing -- but curiously enough, Mr Parvanov does not complain to Greece about the mistreatment of the 'Bulgarian Minority' in that country.

Andreas, you can lie, you can deceive your ignorant population and you can spend money on propaganda and politicians -- but you can never hide what Greece has done in Aegean Macedonia.


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 Post subject: Re: Greek Acts against the Macedonians (chronicles reviews)
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2007 20:05 
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Andreas Syggros wrote:
maknews wrote:
Mr Medichkov was born and raised in Aegean Macedonia and knows exactly who the Macedonians are. Medichkov is correct -- it's the Carnegie visitors to Macedonia that didn't get it right.





Carnegie Report is a document that you cannot defy. It says nothing about Slavic people in Kastoria, Florina or Aridaia. IT IS IN THESE AREAS that real Macedoninas could be found, i.e. people who from end of 1890 begun to create a dinstinct Macedonian national identity. (*)



..Who are infact "slavophone greeks" in no way connected to the ppl 30 kms north of them in rom, and it is they who are the TRUE Macedonians!!Yes they are bcs they are grekophone slavic macedonians (not that there is another form of macedonians,its just that mental virus spreading from greece)and are the REAL Macedonians as are WE the REAL Macedonians , do you know why ?Bcs we are the same ppl!!We managed to preserve pure Macedonian concience while our brothers sisters mothers and dads in the aegean didnt had any choice than to become Greek overnight.If he wanted to live that is.And as for Greek-Macedonians - this from the 89 year when you finally understand that Macedonia will get independent - so you allowed these ppl to call them at list half macedonians, but again not the reality,not just what they are but "slavophone greeks,the real desendatnts of Alexander!!''

You will loose this schizophrenic, out of this world konflikt, do you know why?

Bcs your arguments are at best good material for beavis and buthead, bcs you are the bullys,the non-respectfull,hatefull ppl that dont reckognize an minority in its own country whos reality is name Macedonian and it has nothing to do with greek ego. and has everything to do with reality - the thing the greek lost touch from - they'r now in wonderland behind the looking glass.And this is not just a phrase. Its the cold, hard, sad truth...

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(Lord, let our adversaries to be living long and healthy, for to be witnesses of our success and triumph - that way they will recieve their deserved punishment!!!)

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 Post subject: Re: Greek Acts against the Macedonians (chronicles reviews)
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2007 20:20 
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Magedon wrote:

Bcs your arguments are at best good material for beavis and buthead, bcs you are the bullys,the non-respectfull,hatefull ppl that dont reckognize an minority in its own country whos reality is name Macedonian and it has nothing to do with greek ego. and has everything to do with reality - the thing the greek lost touch from - they'r now in wonderland behind the looking glass.And this is not just a phrase. Its the cold, hard, sad truth...


That is the truth ha???What about my true right of self determination when i declare i am a Greek Macedonian???A Greek who doesnt want any association with Slavonic origin neighbours and who wish to distinguish from the inhabitantants of a neighbouring county?
My Macedonia is the Greek one....our history is not to be debated by any neighbours of Slavonic background that have no real connection with ancient Macedonia.Myself and 3 more million Greek Macedonians feel like that and as long as you have your Greek neighbours claiming heirs of ancient macedonian history then we will always be disputing Megadon.
That is my cold,hard,sad truth.....


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 Post subject: Re: Greek Acts against the Macedonians (chronicles reviews)
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2007 20:40 
Magedon wrote:
Its the cold, hard, sad truth...


SURE. As this truth stays and will stay for ever in the document that I presented, the Carnegie Report, and ridiculed the liar MEDICHKOV.

Stop chestbeating, Magedon, and tell me if the man was not saying lies :

From "liberation to tyranny", Greek army commences savage and bloody "ethnic cleansing" of the towns of Kukush, Doiran, Demir-Hisar and Serres in the Aegean Macedonia.
160 Macedonian villages burned, and atrocities committed. Mass exodus of refugees.

I am speaking SPECIFICALLY on this excerpt from his paper.

The Carnegie Report, as clearly can be seen below, DOES NOT MENTION ANY MACEDONIAN IN THESE SPECIFIC AREAS : KUKUSH, DOIRAN, DEMIR-HISSAR and SERRES.

Or any Macedonian villages burnt.

Only Bulgarians are found there, proud to be Bulgarians. And 160 Bulgarian villages. Do not lecture me, lecture the descendants of Anastasia Pavlova.

Therefore, Greek Army COMMITTED actually atrocities to the Bulgarian paesants, as the Bulgarians did to Greeks. Deplorable for both sides. BUT NO MACEDONIAN VILLAGE IS MENTIONED AS BURNT, OR PEOPLE KILLED.

Please try to answer to the above, and stop chest-beating. Your granfather possibly died during 1946-49. It was a civil war, and war has many victims, even between non-combattants.

BUT, AFTER the ridiculing of MEDICHKOV, do not tell me again that I live in your granpa's cottage. Refugees lived on the deserted Turkish and Bulgarian cottages and houses AFTER THE POPULATION EXCHANGES. PERIOD. I told you that many times. The lies of MEDICHKOV exposed the truth, that coincides with my views. PRAVDA !

I quote from Carnegie Report :
“NO. 43. ANASTASIA PAVLOVA, a widow of Ghevgheli.
Shortly before the outbreak of the second war I was staying with my daughter, a Bulgarian school teacher in the village of Boinitsa. A Greek lady came from Salonica, and distributed money and uniforms to the Turks of the place some six or eight days before the outbreak of the second war. She also called the Bulgarians of the village together, and told them that they must not imagine that this village would belong to Bulgaria. She summoned the Bulgarian priest, and asked him if he would become a Greek. He replied, "We are all Bulgarians and Bulgarians we will remain." “…………….
“No. 52.--A. BURNED VILLAGES IN BULGARIAN TERRITORY, DISTRICT OF STRUMNITSA
The list of burned villages which follows will be found to be accurate, in the sense that it includes no villages which have not been burned. But it is far from complete, save as regards the Kukush and Strumnitsa regions. Many other Bulgarian villages were burned,
(Page 315)
particularly in the Serres and Drama districts. In many cases we have not been able to discover the exact number of houses in a village. It will be noted that the list includes and a few Turkish villages in Bulgarian territory burned by the Greeks, and a few villages burned by the Servians. The immense majority of the villages are, however, Bulgarian villages burned by the Greek army in its northward march.

On the other hand, I DO MENTION THAT IN FLORINA, KASTORIA and ARIDAIA THERE ARE ACTUALLY PEOPLE (as Voskopoulos) WHO CONSIDER THEMSELVES MACEDONIANS. But they are few, today maximum 50.000.

So why you beat your chest and tell me about relatives at 30 klm ? Since IT IS ME WHO HAS ALREADY SAID THAT ?

Your blind passion obstructs your clear vision, Magedon.

Macedonians in the Aegean were few from the very beginning, from 1850. The majority of Slav speakers were Bulgarians, who left Greece in 1920. The rest were two parties, the Grkman, blingual Greeks whom you hate more that your sins, and macedonians.

Your myths and exaggerations about hundreds of thousands of Macedonians killed or still living in Greece are a real joke.

Your real problem is not your tiny minority in Greece, or the name problem. Your problems are the Albanians and the Bulgarians, who recognise your State but DO NOT recognise your nation. WE DO recognise your nation, but disagree on the name. Tell me please which issue is bigger
a) The disagreement on the name (GREECE)
b) The disagreement on having a nationality (BULGARIA)
c) The ceding of Western RoM to Albania (ALBANIANS)
and forget lamenting about lost imaginary cottages.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2007 20:43 
osiris wrote:
from memory a british officer called evans .........


It is the archaeologist Evans. In his letter to THE TIMES of LONDON, he calls every Slav Bulgarian. Do you want me to post it ?


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