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 Post subject: Haha Dora Bakoyianni Not Too Happy...
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2009 03:45 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODaUkwIJ2qc


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 Post subject: Re: Haha Dora Bakoyianni Not Too Happy...
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2009 04:10 
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Dora fails to answer the question yet again. That treaty means nothing to the ethnic Macedonians.

You ask her about red and green, and she talks about blue.

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 Post subject: Re: Haha Dora Bakoyianni Not Too Happy...
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2009 04:19 
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ITS TIME the UMD ask more specific questions, such as:

"Why does Greece not support the Macedonian minority language to children today, but did so under the 1920 Treaty of Sèvres when it introduced the Abecedar?"

"Why after numerous trials from the European Court of Human Rights, does Greece still fail to register the Macedonian Home of Civilization in Lerin/Florina?"

"When will Greece return the properties and citizenship to the Macedonian Children refugees, who were all born in Greece and till this are denied entry to their birth places?"

"In your opinion Ms. Bakoyanni, why did Greece receive such a negative report from the EU Commissioner regarding the human rights of the Macedonian minority in Greece?"

- UMD I hope you consider these questions


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 Post subject: Re: Haha Dora Bakoyianni Not Too Happy...
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2009 04:26 
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Are you kidding, these cowardly EU types run as soon as you pose a question about their rights abuses, I'm surprised Meto got a word in edgewise.

Racists are the biggest chickenshits, the only reason they get away with their sick behaviour is because they outnumber the minority. It's the bully principle on a larger scale. Human filth, really.


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 Post subject: Re: Haha Dora Bakoyianni Not Too Happy...
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2009 05:24 
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WTF ! Answer the question properly you Albanska Ofca.

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 Post subject: Re: Haha Dora Bakoyianni Not Too Happy...
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2009 09:25 
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Tsutsul Pase Goveda wrote:
ITS TIME the UMD ask more specific questions, such as:

"Why does Greece not support the Macedonian minority language to children today, but did so under the 1920 Treaty of Sèvres when it introduced the Abecedar?"

"Why after numerous trials from the European Court of Human Rights, does Greece still fail to register the Macedonian Home of Civilization in Lerin/Florina?"

"When will Greece return the properties and citizenship to the Macedonian Children refugees, who were all born in Greece and till this are denied entry to their birth places?"

"In your opinion Ms. Bakoyanni, why did Greece receive such a negative report from the EU Commissioner regarding the human rights of the Macedonian minority in Greece?"

- UMD I hope you consider these questions


Yes, I've some more...

- Which ethnicity have the people of your northern neighbor?

- Ms. Bakoyanni, you said the RoM should forget the past, so why should not Greece this too and accept the situation and the name Republic of Macedonia?

- Macedonia is a big region as you said and therefore should RoM change it's name, but on the other side Greece is chanting "Macedonia is Greece", this looks like it's the other way round?

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 Post subject: Re: Haha Dora Bakoyianni Not Too Happy...
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2009 09:27 
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Bushav wrote:
Dora fails to answer the question yet again. That treaty means nothing to the ethnic Macedonians.

You ask her about red and green, and she talks about blue.


Ti ja krstish, a taja ti prdi. :lol

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 Post subject: Re: Haha Dora Bakoyianni Not Too Happy...
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2009 13:00 
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Kaj Dora nema trte mrte.. samo proliv na zborovite :lol

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 Post subject: Re: Haha Dora Bakoyianni Not Too Happy...
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2009 15:22 
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TriKilaBanani wrote:
Tsutsul Pase Goveda wrote:
ITS TIME the UMD ask more specific questions, such as:

"Why does Greece not support the Macedonian minority language to children today, but did so under the 1920 Treaty of Sèvres when it introduced the Abecedar?"

"Why after numerous trials from the European Court of Human Rights, does Greece still fail to register the Macedonian Home of Civilization in Lerin/Florina?"

"When will Greece return the properties and citizenship to the Macedonian Children refugees, who were all born in Greece and till this are denied entry to their birth places?"

"In your opinion Ms. Bakoyanni, why did Greece receive such a negative report from the EU Commissioner regarding the human rights of the Macedonian minority in Greece?"

- UMD I hope you consider these questions


Yes, I've some more...

- Which ethnicity have the people of your northern neighbor?

- Ms. Bakoyanni, you said the RoM should forget the past, so why should not Greece this too and accept the situation and the name Republic of Macedonia?

- Macedonia is a big region as you said and therefore should RoM change it's name, but on the other side Greece is chanting "Macedonia is Greece", this looks like it's the other way round?


I agree as well, an I have few questions:

-Ms. Bakoyannis, Dont you agree that the name of the province in Greece, called Macedonia MUST be changed as well, becose it provokes confusion and therritorial clames? As you said, Macedonia is big region, not ONLY the province in Greece.

- Ms. Bakoyannis, if you dont try to rename anyone, then why do you call the people of Republic of Macedonia-Skopjanoi and their language-bulgarian dialect?

- Ms. Bakoyannis, do you think that Luxemburg HAVE to change its name, becose of the province of Luxemburg in Belgium? Or USA, becose America is MUCH bigger area? Or Romania, becose of the province of Romania?

-Ms. Bakoyannis do you recpect the Macedonian Constitution? If yes, then why dont you respect the article that states that R.of Macedonia HAVE NO THERRITORIAL CLAMES towards ANY of its neighbours?

-Ms. Bakoyannis, very often you say that there is "some slavophone people" leaving in northen Greece. Can you tell us WHO are this people, and WHY is "slavic" their mother tongue, and NOT Greek?

:sumo


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 Post subject: Re: Haha Dora Bakoyianni Not Too Happy...
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2009 18:24 
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I thought about it...and I decided to withdraw my questions, because she isn't enough qualified to answer these questions. She isn't able to sum up the the divided parts in percentages. :smack

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNq2brF7Qnc

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 Post subject: Re: Haha Dora Bakoyianni Not Too Happy...
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2009 18:26 
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general-discussions/bakoyanni-51-in-greece-38-in-bulgaria-37-in-fyrom-127-t14000.html


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 Post subject: Re: Haha Dora Bakoyianni Not Too Happy...
PostPosted: 26 Feb 2009 01:59 
A question might be: Dora, does Greece have territorial aspirations against the Macedonian Republic, and would you consider renaming Northern Greece to include the term "Macedonia" in 1989 an aggressive move against the Macedonian Republic?


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 Post subject: Re: Haha Dora Bakoyianni Not Too Happy...
PostPosted: 26 Feb 2009 02:20 
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Paul wrote:
A question might be: Dora, does Greece have territorial aspirations against the Macedonian Republic, and would you consider renaming Northern Greece to include the term "Macedonia" in 1989 an aggressive move against the Macedonian Republic?


Even Grkomani use to call it Northern Greece up until then, why the sudden change? After 17 wasted years what has Athens been willing
give up forever?

Fair Deal

Greece - Macedonia.gr
Macedonia - Macedonia.mk

Wild Card - Macedonia.usa

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 Post subject: Re: Haha Dora Bakoyianni Not Too Happy...
PostPosted: 26 Feb 2009 03:01 
Why the sudden change, and what behind it? Read this excellent article.

Quote:
Comedy: Greek by Name
By Hans Lothar Schteppan
Translated and edited by Risto Stefov
rstefov@hotmail.com
February 12, 2008
Source: Forum Plus, Number 123, 01.02.2008

The satire "Greek by name" from December 12, 2007, is characterized as successfully funny and even humourous, sadly however reality is seldom a "comedy".

If for the Greeks the "name" issue REPRESENTS "Support for the State Philosophy" which is overly excessive, then for the Macedonians it represents a risk of "losing their country and ethnic existense".

Macedonians have been using this name for at least 1,500 years or since many tribes settled the Balkans and mixed with the indigenous people. Greeks on the other hand have gained Macedonian territory, specifically their northern province which for the longest time they called "Northern Greece" only 95 years ago when they took possession of 51% of Macedonia in 1913. Only in 1989 did Greece change the name of its northern province to "Macedonia" under the motto "Attack is the best defense".

It is absurd that Macedonians are even talking to the Greeks knowing that they have little chance of making progress in these unfair negotiations. Thanks to Greece's threat of veto and its irresponsible use of it as well as its position in NATO and the EU it has all the help it needs from the European Community to hold Macedonia back as long as it wants.

Greece very cunningly and abruptly rejected Macedonia's name in 1992 in Lisbon before anyone had a chance to "examine the facts". This rejection also came with misinformation and confusion leading the unaware European ministers to come to the wrong conclusion. Greece lead the European Community into believing that the name "Macedonia" was of no importance to the Republic of Macedonia because allegedly this was a name created by Tito when Yugoslavia became a state of republics in 1944. Thus Greece's strong objection to the name was laid on a foundation of lies. The EU states, without consulting historical data and without examining the facts, were quick to take Athens's side. A similar scenario was repeated in 1993 when Macedonia applied for membership into the United Nations. It seems that justice is not important these days and the sacred Greek might is always placed ahead of Macedonia's right.

If we examine past approaches to the name issue taken by our American "mediator" of the UN, we will find that the whole process is biased in Greece's favour. Actions taken during briefings in Skopje in 1994 and 1995 at best can be described as "desperate".

With the exception of naming the Skopje Airport "Alexander the Great", every gesture Macedonia made in Greece's view should be positive but from what experience has shown Greece has been relentless and has, without thinking twice, used all ammunition delivered to its hands against Macedonia.

Macedonia on the other hand has a great heritage which modern Europe considers to be the cradle of western culture. Ironicaly even though it is well known that Alexander the Great was Macedonian, no one complained when Greece named its airport "Alexander the Great" in late 1989. What justification did the Greeks have? That Alexander the Great spread "Hellenism" to the world during his expeditions? If that were true, and no one can deny that modern Europe in its entirety has profited immensely from Hellenism, then why is there not a single European nation (besides Greece) Greek today? Why is there not a single nation outside of Europe, where Alexander ventured, Greek today?

When Slav tribes were settling the Balkans in the 6th and 7th centuries AD the ancient Greeks had already abandoned Greece and others settled in their place. For well known reasons the Greeks left Greece at the end of the 4th century but the descendents of the ancient Macedonians remained all while Macedonia was a Roman province. Thus the descendents of the ancient Macedonians lived in Macedonia as the descendents of the ancient Thracians lived in Thrace and as the descendents of the Ancient Epirians lived in Epirus.
In time these people assimilated with the Slav tribes who in turn adopted those lands as their home and left their genetic markers in the modern populations. So today we have Slav and ancient Macedonian genetic markers in the blood of the modern Macedonians the same as we have Thracian genetic markers in the blood of the modern Bulgarians and modern Turks living in Eastern Thrace. The same can be said about the modern Greeks and Albanians who carry in their blood the genetic markers from the ancient Epirians.

Even though it is well known that the Turko-Tatar Bulgars settled the Eastern Balkans 150 years after the Slav tribes and took the Slavic language from them, does not prevent the modern Bulgarians from asserting that today's Macedonians allegedly speak "Bulgarian".

Further forward in time, during the 9th century according to George Shtatmiller author of the book "History of South-Easter Europe" the Greeks, drawn by the Slav settlements of Greece, returned to their former fatherland and assimilated the Slavs and Albanians settling that region. So how can the Greeks then claim to be related to the ancient Macedonians?

Contrary to any Greek assertions, Greeks in reality never settled Macedonian territories, not in ancient nor any other time until the 20th century. Macedonians on the other hand have conquered and have occupied Greek lands. The ancient Macedonians, through the League of Corinth, held hegemony over the Greeks for over 120 years during which time they also occupied Athens for a short period.

Thus prior to the 20th century Macedonia was never Greek, not during Roman times when both Macedonia and Greece were Roman colonies, not during the Middle Ages, not during Ottoman times and certainly not until after the 1912, 1913 Balkan Wars when Greece, for the first time, by virtue of conquest, was awarded Macedonian lands including Solun and parts of Thrace. And this Greece did not do alone but with help from its neighbours Serbia, Bulgaria and Montenegro and with the blessings of the Great Powers. Thanks to the Great Powers, Russia in particular, for their support of the four Balkan monarchies which united and declared war on the Ottomans without themselves being swallowed up by Austro-Hungary or Romania.

Let us also remind the world that the Thracians and Epirians disappeared after 1913 only as a result of brutal hellenization at the hands of the Greek state, brutal Bulgarization at the hands of the Bulgarians and Islamization due to Ottoman influence. The Macedonians occupied by Serbia to some extent survived Serbian attempts at assimilation and began to regain their Macedonian consciousness under the cover of Yugoslavia.

It is sad to say that Macedonia's annexation in 1913 happened with the blessing of International right which now reminds it of the shame it committed. It is not fear of the Macedonian hammer that Greece is afraid but of the fear of facing its own shame in public.

As protectors of the European heritage which has flourished for centuries, European Union parliamentarians should be ashamed of forcing Macedonia, a state which in the past has done so much for Europe, to accept a farcical name like "FYROM". This again proves that Europe values business and money far above justice, truth, etiquette and morality.

If this small country has learned anything, it has learned how unfair Europe can be. The 2001 Ohrid Agreement was forced upon it by Brussels bureaucrats without even examining the facts or consulting history. Europe has shown no care for the dangers under the sword of Demiclis it has created for this young state. With this kind of attitude how does Europe expect to hold a united existence?

The only option Macedonia is left with to protect its rights is to present its case to the international community.

Hans Lothar Schteppan is a former German Ambassador to the Republic of Macedonia and author of the book "Macedonian Knot"


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 Post subject: Re: Haha Dora Bakoyianni Not Too Happy...
PostPosted: 26 Feb 2009 04:44 
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Paul wrote:
Why the sudden change, and what behind it? Read this excellent article.

Quote:
Comedy: Greek by Name
By Hans Lothar Schteppan
Translated and edited by Risto Stefov
rstefov@hotmail.com
February 12, 2008
Source: Forum Plus, Number 123, 01.02.2008

The satire "Greek by name" from December 12, 2007, is characterized as successfully funny and even humourous, sadly however reality is seldom a "comedy".

If for the Greeks the "name" issue REPRESENTS "Support for the State Philosophy" which is overly excessive, then for the Macedonians it represents a risk of "losing their country and ethnic existense".

Macedonians have been using this name for at least 1,500 years or since many tribes settled the Balkans and mixed with the indigenous people. Greeks on the other hand have gained Macedonian territory, specifically their northern province which for the longest time they called "Northern Greece" only 95 years ago when they took possession of 51% of Macedonia in 1913. Only in 1989 did Greece change the name of its northern province to "Macedonia" under the motto "Attack is the best defense".

It is absurd that Macedonians are even talking to the Greeks knowing that they have little chance of making progress in these unfair negotiations. Thanks to Greece's threat of veto and its irresponsible use of it as well as its position in NATO and the EU it has all the help it needs from the European Community to hold Macedonia back as long as it wants.

Greece very cunningly and abruptly rejected Macedonia's name in 1992 in Lisbon before anyone had a chance to "examine the facts". This rejection also came with misinformation and confusion leading the unaware European ministers to come to the wrong conclusion. Greece lead the European Community into believing that the name "Macedonia" was of no importance to the Republic of Macedonia because allegedly this was a name created by Tito when Yugoslavia became a state of republics in 1944. Thus Greece's strong objection to the name was laid on a foundation of lies. The EU states, without consulting historical data and without examining the facts, were quick to take Athens's side. A similar scenario was repeated in 1993 when Macedonia applied for membership into the United Nations. It seems that justice is not important these days and the sacred Greek might is always placed ahead of Macedonia's right.

If we examine past approaches to the name issue taken by our American "mediator" of the UN, we will find that the whole process is biased in Greece's favour. Actions taken during briefings in Skopje in 1994 and 1995 at best can be described as "desperate".

With the exception of naming the Skopje Airport "Alexander the Great", every gesture Macedonia made in Greece's view should be positive but from what experience has shown Greece has been relentless and has, without thinking twice, used all ammunition delivered to its hands against Macedonia.

Macedonia on the other hand has a great heritage which modern Europe considers to be the cradle of western culture. Ironicaly even though it is well known that Alexander the Great was Macedonian, no one complained when Greece named its airport "Alexander the Great" in late 1989. What justification did the Greeks have? That Alexander the Great spread "Hellenism" to the world during his expeditions? If that were true, and no one can deny that modern Europe in its entirety has profited immensely from Hellenism, then why is there not a single European nation (besides Greece) Greek today? Why is there not a single nation outside of Europe, where Alexander ventured, Greek today?

When Slav tribes were settling the Balkans in the 6th and 7th centuries AD the ancient Greeks had already abandoned Greece and others settled in their place. For well known reasons the Greeks left Greece at the end of the 4th century but the descendents of the ancient Macedonians remained all while Macedonia was a Roman province. Thus the descendents of the ancient Macedonians lived in Macedonia as the descendents of the ancient Thracians lived in Thrace and as the descendents of the Ancient Epirians lived in Epirus.
In time these people assimilated with the Slav tribes who in turn adopted those lands as their home and left their genetic markers in the modern populations. So today we have Slav and ancient Macedonian genetic markers in the blood of the modern Macedonians the same as we have Thracian genetic markers in the blood of the modern Bulgarians and modern Turks living in Eastern Thrace. The same can be said about the modern Greeks and Albanians who carry in their blood the genetic markers from the ancient Epirians.

Even though it is well known that the Turko-Tatar Bulgars settled the Eastern Balkans 150 years after the Slav tribes and took the Slavic language from them, does not prevent the modern Bulgarians from asserting that today's Macedonians allegedly speak "Bulgarian".

Further forward in time, during the 9th century according to George Shtatmiller author of the book "History of South-Easter Europe" the Greeks, drawn by the Slav settlements of Greece, returned to their former fatherland and assimilated the Slavs and Albanians settling that region. So how can the Greeks then claim to be related to the ancient Macedonians?

Contrary to any Greek assertions, Greeks in reality never settled Macedonian territories, not in ancient nor any other time until the 20th century. Macedonians on the other hand have conquered and have occupied Greek lands. The ancient Macedonians, through the League of Corinth, held hegemony over the Greeks for over 120 years during which time they also occupied Athens for a short period.

Thus prior to the 20th century Macedonia was never Greek, not during Roman times when both Macedonia and Greece were Roman colonies, not during the Middle Ages, not during Ottoman times and certainly not until after the 1912, 1913 Balkan Wars when Greece, for the first time, by virtue of conquest, was awarded Macedonian lands including Solun and parts of Thrace. And this Greece did not do alone but with help from its neighbours Serbia, Bulgaria and Montenegro and with the blessings of the Great Powers. Thanks to the Great Powers, Russia in particular, for their support of the four Balkan monarchies which united and declared war on the Ottomans without themselves being swallowed up by Austro-Hungary or Romania.

Let us also remind the world that the Thracians and Epirians disappeared after 1913 only as a result of brutal hellenization at the hands of the Greek state, brutal Bulgarization at the hands of the Bulgarians and Islamization due to Ottoman influence. The Macedonians occupied by Serbia to some extent survived Serbian attempts at assimilation and began to regain their Macedonian consciousness under the cover of Yugoslavia.

It is sad to say that Macedonia's annexation in 1913 happened with the blessing of International right which now reminds it of the shame it committed. It is not fear of the Macedonian hammer that Greece is afraid but of the fear of facing its own shame in public.

As protectors of the European heritage which has flourished for centuries, European Union parliamentarians should be ashamed of forcing Macedonia, a state which in the past has done so much for Europe, to accept a farcical name like "FYROM". This again proves that Europe values business and money far above justice, truth, etiquette and morality.

If this small country has learned anything, it has learned how unfair Europe can be. The 2001 Ohrid Agreement was forced upon it by Brussels bureaucrats without even examining the facts or consulting history. Europe has shown no care for the dangers under the sword of Demiclis it has created for this young state. With this kind of attitude how does Europe expect to hold a united existence?

The only option Macedonia is left with to protect its rights is to present its case to the international community.

Hans Lothar Schteppan is a former German Ambassador to the Republic of Macedonia and author of the book "Macedonian Knot"

great article p.

what the UN must realize is that Athens like on so many occasions over the past 17 WASTED YEARS violated the accord and cost $1,000,000's when they had already made a choice to veto one year earlier. On that matter alone the "Greek Name Issue" should be null and void.

Let the people of Greece put Nea Democratia on trial now because they're history over this matter. PASOK is just as corrupt (even more) so who else is able?

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 Post subject: Re: Haha Dora Bakoyianni Not Too Happy...
PostPosted: 26 Feb 2009 13:58 
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One should never ask more than one question at a time to such a person !


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 Post subject: Re: Haha Dora Bakoyianni Not Too Happy...
PostPosted: 26 Feb 2009 23:01 
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Justice Seeker wrote:
One should never ask more than one question at a time to such a person !


:lol :lol

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 Post subject: Re: Haha Dora Bakoyianni Not Too Happy...
PostPosted: 27 Feb 2009 01:55 
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the question should have been miss bakoyannis, how can the daughter of an albanian mother claim hellenic ancestery.

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 Post subject: Re: Haha Dora Bakoyianni Not Too Happy...
PostPosted: 27 Feb 2009 02:15 
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osiris wrote:
the question should have been miss bakoyannis, how can the daughter of an albanian mother claim hellenic ancestery.


Postman?

:wave

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 Post subject: Re: Haha Dora Bakoyianni Not Too Happy...
PostPosted: 27 Feb 2009 14:04 
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osiris wrote:
the question should have been miss bakoyannis, how can the daughter of an albanian mother claim hellenic ancestery.


Because France and Germany pay for her links to the ancient Hellenes. Da mu se mocham na EU i sve.

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