* Return to the MakNews.com Homepage *Macedonia Forum

Macedonian discussion forum for News and Macedonian affairs.
It is currently 22 May 2012 18:31

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 95 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2008 09:29 
If I was going to take a guess, I would say that that is something You will never be told, and never know. :P


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2008 09:40 
Offline

Joined: 19 Nov 2005 05:15
Posts: 212
Traveller wrote:
But the word that was prevailing in the conversations was "Slavomakedones". THAT'S HOW WE CALLED YOU back then.
Slav Macedonians were the only Macedonians BACK THEN AND NOW.
Can you give me one famous greek macedonian from say 1900 to 1980 who declared a MACEDONIAN. The only people that declared MACEDONIAN are the slavic speaking Macedonians.

You got Macedonian nothing in you traveller.
Now go fuck yourself.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2008 10:07 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 03 Jan 2008 16:13
Posts: 1084
Location: Voden, Macedonia
"Slavomacedonians" is a term invented by the Greek Communist Party and adopted also by other Greeks, later, especially the PASOK ones.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2008 19:49 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 13 Nov 2004 07:37
Posts: 200
gornichvo wrote:
Traveller wrote:
But the word that was prevailing in the conversations was "Slavomakedones". THAT'S HOW WE CALLED YOU back then.
Slav Macedonians were the only Macedonians BACK THEN AND NOW.
Can you give me one famous greek macedonian from say 1900 to 1980 who declared a MACEDONIAN. The only people that declared MACEDONIAN are the slavic speaking Macedonians.

You got Macedonian nothing in you traveller.
Now go fuck yourself.


well, thats the question i ve never got answer from any greek. show at least one greek that in the past declare macedonian. being greek automaticaly excluded any notion of being macedonian. of course, i m talking about pre greek macedonian invention hysteria from the beggining of 80ies.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2008 20:05 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2003 05:49
Posts: 8054
Location: Toronto
We didn't self-identify as 'Slavo-Macedonian'. As Vodenka notes, this is a Greek invention, along with dopoii, diglossos, slavofoni, etc.

If this term was used it is was used to reference Macedonian within the Greek mindset at the time.

We call ourselves Macedonians and have been doing so for centuries.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2008 20:48 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 09 Feb 2008 05:47
Posts: 268
Location: Toronto
bosnian wrote:
gornichvo wrote:
Traveller wrote:
But the word that was prevailing in the conversations was "Slavomakedones". THAT'S HOW WE CALLED YOU back then.
Slav Macedonians were the only Macedonians BACK THEN AND NOW.
Can you give me one famous greek macedonian from say 1900 to 1980 who declared a MACEDONIAN. The only people that declared MACEDONIAN are the slavic speaking Macedonians.

You got Macedonian nothing in you traveller.
Now go fuck yourself.


well, thats the question i ve never got answer from any greek. show at least one greek that in the past declare macedonian. being greek automaticaly excluded any notion of being macedonian. of course, i m talking about pre greek macedonian invention hysteria from the beggining of 80ies.


I already posted it, here you can see it again
http://cgi.ebay.ca/MACEDONIA-WAR-FOR-IN ... dZViewItem


“The contribution of Macedonians to the struggle for independence [from Turkey-Turks] (1796-1832)” by I.K.Vasdravellis. Printing office N. Nikolaidis, Thessaloniki 1950, 2nd edition, revised & extended. Edited by the Society for Macedonian Studies. Awarded by the Academy of Athens. Illustrated – 15 b/w plates. Few tables are also included. Contents: Palikars, The Macedonians of the Danubian Hegemonies & their participation in Rigas Velestinlis-Feraios’ movement, Taking part in the revolution in Hegemonies - Georgakis Olympios, Giannis Farmakis, Georgios Lassanis (from Kozani), Revolution in Chalkidiki’s peninsula & the incidents in Salonique, Insurrection in Olympos, Naoussa & Western Macedonia, Episodes that followed the outburst of revolution in Macedonia"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2008 21:03 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 02 Feb 2008 06:02
Posts: 753
Ed. The Society for Macedonian Studies is a post facto anti-Macedonian propaganda organisation created in Solun in 1939.

http://www.hyper.gr/ems/

Notice how many times they mention Northern Greece and not Macedonia
This group is a huge supporter of the Pan-Macs worldwide.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2008 21:13 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 09 Feb 2008 05:47
Posts: 268
Location: Toronto
Skapan wrote:
Ed. The Society for Macedonian Studies is a post facto anti-Macedonian propaganda organisation created in Solun in 1939.

http://www.hyper.gr/ems/

Notice how many times they mention Northern Greece and not Macedonia
This group is a huge supporter of the Pan-Macs worldwide.


Northern Greece = Makedonia & Thrace . People are asking for the use of the word Makedonia before 1988, this book is from 1950, im just showing what i can find. Lets go halves and make a bid for the book :P


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2008 21:46 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 02 Feb 2008 06:02
Posts: 753
LOL...Yeah that's what I need...more Greek propaganda. I've got bookshelves groaning with it already. LOL.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2008 23:16 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 02 Jun 2005 02:47
Posts: 1163
Location: Melbourne, Australia
EdNahou wrote:
Skapan wrote:
Ed. The Society for Macedonian Studies is a post facto anti-Macedonian propaganda organisation created in Solun in 1939.

http://www.hyper.gr/ems/

Notice how many times they mention Northern Greece and not Macedonia
This group is a huge supporter of the Pan-Macs worldwide.


Northern Greece = Makedonia & Thrace . People are asking for the use of the word Makedonia before 1988, this book is from 1950, im just showing what i can find. Lets go halves and make a bid for the book :P
And those people were dealt with harshly by Greek authorities for insisting. Macedonians lost there lives for this you jerk.
____________________________________________________________

From the village of P’pezhani, Tashko Popov, Dimitar Popov-Skenderov and Todor Trpenov were beaten and sentenced to 12 years prison. Pavle Mevchev and Atanas Popov from Vrbeni and Boreshnica joined them in early 1927, they were soon after transferred to Kozhani and executed. As they were leaving Lerin they were heard to shout "With our death, Macedonia will not be lost. Our blood will run, but other Macedonians will rise from it"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2008 06:25 
EdNahou wrote:
bosnian wrote:
gornichvo wrote:
Traveller wrote:
But the word that was prevailing in the conversations was "Slavomakedones". THAT'S HOW WE CALLED YOU back then.
Slav Macedonians were the only Macedonians BACK THEN AND NOW.
Can you give me one famous greek macedonian from say 1900 to 1980 who declared a MACEDONIAN. The only people that declared MACEDONIAN are the slavic speaking Macedonians.

You got Macedonian nothing in you traveller.
Now go fuck yourself.


well, thats the question i ve never got answer from any greek. show at least one greek that in the past declare macedonian. being greek automaticaly excluded any notion of being macedonian. of course, i m talking about pre greek macedonian invention hysteria from the beggining of 80ies.


I already posted it, here you can see it again
http://cgi.ebay.ca/MACEDONIA-WAR-FOR-IN ... dZViewItem


“The contribution of Macedonians to the struggle for independence [from Turkey-Turks] (1796-1832)” by I.K.Vasdravellis. Printing office N. Nikolaidis, Thessaloniki 1950, 2nd edition, revised & extended. Edited by the Society for Macedonian Studies. Awarded by the Academy of Athens. Illustrated – 15 b/w plates. Few tables are also included. Contents: Palikars, The Macedonians of the Danubian Hegemonies & their participation in Rigas Velestinlis-Feraios’ movement, Taking part in the revolution in Hegemonies - Georgakis Olympios, Giannis Farmakis, Georgios Lassanis (from Kozani), Revolution in Chalkidiki’s peninsula & the incidents in Salonique, Insurrection in Olympos, Naoussa & Western Macedonia, Episodes that followed the outburst of revolution in Macedonia"



Anachronistic (and very, very loaded).

There was no Greek national consiounce. Trying to retrospectively write "Greeks" (before they knew who they were) into a history of Macedonia "as Macedonians" is just absurd.

Greek independance was fought mainly by three distinct ethnic groups Albanians, Vlachs and Macedonians.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2008 13:51 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 02 Jun 2005 02:47
Posts: 1163
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Paul wrote:
EdNahou wrote:
bosnian wrote:
gornichvo wrote:
Traveller wrote:
But the word that was prevailing in the conversations was "Slavomakedones". THAT'S HOW WE CALLED YOU back then.
Slav Macedonians were the only Macedonians BACK THEN AND NOW.
Can you give me one famous greek macedonian from say 1900 to 1980 who declared a MACEDONIAN. The only people that declared MACEDONIAN are the slavic speaking Macedonians.

You got Macedonian nothing in you traveller.
Now go fuck yourself.


well, thats the question i ve never got answer from any greek. show at least one greek that in the past declare macedonian. being greek automaticaly excluded any notion of being macedonian. of course, i m talking about pre greek macedonian invention hysteria from the beggining of 80ies.


I already posted it, here you can see it again
http://cgi.ebay.ca/MACEDONIA-WAR-FOR-IN ... dZViewItem


“The contribution of Macedonians to the struggle for independence [from Turkey-Turks] (1796-1832)” by I.K.Vasdravellis. Printing office N. Nikolaidis, Thessaloniki 1950, 2nd edition, revised & extended. Edited by the Society for Macedonian Studies. Awarded by the Academy of Athens. Illustrated – 15 b/w plates. Few tables are also included. Contents: Palikars, The Macedonians of the Danubian Hegemonies & their participation in Rigas Velestinlis-Feraios’ movement, Taking part in the revolution in Hegemonies - Georgakis Olympios, Giannis Farmakis, Georgios Lassanis (from Kozani), Revolution in Chalkidiki’s peninsula & the incidents in Salonique, Insurrection in Olympos, Naoussa & Western Macedonia, Episodes that followed the outburst of revolution in Macedonia"



Anachronistic (and very, very loaded).

There was no Greek national consiounce. Trying to retrospectively write "Greeks" (before they knew who they were) into a history of Macedonia "as Macedonians" is just absurd.

Greek independance was fought mainly by three distinct ethnic groups Albanians, Vlachs and Macedonians.


The so called 'Greek' heroes from their war of independence were Albanian. Christian Albanians fighting for autonomy from the 'Muslim' Ottoman Empire.
____________________________________________________________

From the village of P’pezhani, Tashko Popov, Dimitar Popov-Skenderov and Todor Trpenov were beaten and sentenced to 12 years prison. Pavle Mevchev and Atanas Popov from Vrbeni and Boreshnica joined them in early 1927, they were soon after transferred to Kozhani and executed. As they were leaving Lerin they were heard to shout "With our death, Macedonia will not be lost. Our blood will run, but other Macedonians will rise from it"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2008 15:23 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 17 May 2007 15:41
Posts: 7066
Location: TORONTO Nevoleni, Lerin Region
Mancevski SLAMS Greek ethnic cleansing of Aegean Macedonians

Skopje, April 13 (MIA) - Prominent Macedonian movie director Milco Mancevski in an interview with Greek newspaper 'Eleftherotypia' calls on Greeks to consider the damage that may be caused by the nationalist hysteria against Macedonia, to learn about history from unbiased sources and realize that they are not entitled to interfere in the decision of Macedonians on their name.

- Your readers should think about the harm such nationalist hysteria, narcissism and manipulative politicians may cause. First of all, people should study unbiased sources and learn a bit more about their own history. Denial, propaganda and hysterical reactions from a position of power will not alter the historical truth, Mancevski says.

He says that his movie 'Shadows' presents the suffering of Aegean Macedonians without mentioning Greece.

- It is sad that the ethnic cleansing of Aegean Macedonians is not a publicly known fact in Greece. There are many historical, independent data, including the 1914 Carnegie Commission Report, and I will ask you to speak with tens thousands of Macedonian refugees and their children that live in Toronto, Melbourne, Tashkent, Poland, Romania, the Czech Republic ... I am not talking about a movie characters, but about real people of flash and blood who suffered the pain of a genuine ethnic cleansing. They have lost their families, been expelled from their own homes in Greece. Yes, some of them under a threat of napalm, used for the first time in Gramos - according to witnesses - or bayonets. I would ask you to consider the fact that in 1923 official Greece published a primer for the first grade in Macedonian language in Cyrillic alphabet for Macedonian pupils in Greece, to withdraw it later on and to deny that it ever existed. I would also like to point out the fact that Macedonian toponymes, which you call Slavic, in what official Greece in that period was calling 'newly occupied territories', were erased under official decrees, while the language was banned. Even the word 'Macedonia', which is seemingly in the focus of the current, ridiculus dispute, was not used in Greece before the last 20 years. Yours Ministry of Macedonia and Trakia was the Ministry of Northern Greece and Trakia until the late 1980s. And the repression over the word 'Macedonia', and afterwards changing of the course for 180 degrees with insisting on the exclusive rights of using this particular word - are two aspects of the same strategy - (Greece's) strategy that attempts to assimilate the country, its culture and heritage. However, Macedonia had never been a part of Greece until 1912. And no extent of political hysteria, denial and violence will not change the fact that the Greek province Macedonia has been part of Greece for just a blink of an eye form the historical point of view - only 95 years, Mancevski says.

I have friends Macedonians, born in Uzbekistan, Checkoslovakia because their parents during their childhood had to fled across the border in order to save their lives . They grew up in orphanages, Mancevski says.

- I have a female friend in Cologne, whose grandmother died in the snow in an attempt to cross the Greek border. I know people with broken hearts for being unable to return, visit the graves of their parents, houses of their birth, already confiscated as (Greece) issues no visas to them. As a student, trying to obtain Greek visa at the Liaison Office in Skopje, I had to present a birth certificate of my parents to prove that Greece is not their place of birth; otherwise I could not have gotten a tourist visa. I have a friend in the US, who was banned to enter Greece because he had spoken about ethnic cleansing in the past. My grandfather was executed by a firing squad in Greece, Mancevski says.

He points out that the end of his 'Shadows' - when the main character buries bones and ghosts - sends a message to young people in Macedonia to move on, something that should also be done in Greece.

- But, first of all (Greeks) should admit the sins of their fathers. There is no progress and forgiveness without admitting the sins of the past. Recently Australia has apologized to Aborigines. Willy Brandt pleaded for forgiveness on his knees. Germany has admitted and accepted the responsibility for its deeds and now it moves on towards better future. Actually people in my country desperately wish to move from the past and head to the future, believing that NATO, EU and global integration is the road to the future and having hardship to achieve this goal. Our integration has been blocked exactly by Greek politicians, who are stirring up the nationalist hysteria for own political benefit at home, while making attempts to hide the atrocities of the past, Mancevski says.

For him the name dispute is ridiculous, and Greece's attempt to impose a name that suits Athens is an act of ultimate rudeness.

- Let's admit that the name dispute is preposterous, as if it is a product of Becket or Jonesko. It is a justification for imposing a blockade on this poor country, which ruins its economy, and for it to be destabilized by vetoing its rise within the international community. This selfish behaviour is dangerous. The claim that small Macedonia with 8,000 soldiers might be an irredentist threat to the powerful NATO member Greece with 240,000 soldiers, air force and equipment is extremely ridiculous. The macho-elephant is afraid of a mouse. The issue of good upbringing is more important. What is giving you the right to come to my home and tell me how I can or cannot call myself? Don't you think that it is a result of extreme rudeness, Mancevski says.

He also points out the difference between Macedonians in Macedonia and those living in Northern Greece (also called Macedonia).

- People in Greece that you refer to as Macedonians are Greeks that live in Macedonia (Northern Greece). They are ethnic Greeks, such as a Greek from Trakia, who calls himself Greek Trakian. On the other hand, majority of people living in the Republic of Macedonia are ethnic Macedonians. That is how I feel, how my father, grandfather felt. At the beginning of the 20th century there were migrants from the Ottoman Empire heading to the US, who declared themselves as ethnic Macedonians. These facts cannot disappear, no matter how many childish, angry statements the Greek politicians will give or how many vetoes and embargoes Greece is going to impose. It may be difficult to explain this concept to the citizens of Greece, considering the fact that it is the one and only European country that denies the existence of minorities, their rights, for which the country has been reprimanded by many international institutions. But this is a matter of identity and dignity, which are essential for every human being and it is extremely insulting when someone is trying to play games in this respect, Mancevski says.

MIA

_________________
http://www.makedonskakafana.com
Image

All crimes should be punished with humiliations - public exposure in ridiculous and grotesque situations - and never in any other way. Death makes a hero of the villain, and he is envied by some spectators and imitators.- Mark Twain


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2008 22:54 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 04 Oct 2005 13:28
Posts: 896
Quote:
- People in Greece that you refer to as Macedonians are Greeks that live in Macedonia (Northern Greece). They are ethnic Greeks, such as a Greek from Trakia, who calls himself Greek Trakian. On the other hand, majority of people living in the Republic of Macedonia are ethnic Macedonians. That is how I feel, how my father, grandfather felt. At the beginning of the 20th century there were migrants from the Ottoman Empire heading to the US, who declared themselves as ethnic Macedonians. These facts cannot disappear, no matter how many childish, angry statements the Greek politicians will give or how many vetoes and embargoes Greece is going to impose. It may be difficult to explain this concept to the citizens of Greece, considering the fact that it is the one and only European country that denies the existence of minorities, their rights, for which the country has been reprimanded by many international institutions. But this is a matter of identity and dignity, which are essential for every human being and it is extremely insulting when someone is trying to play games in this respect, Mancevski says.

What a diplomat.
And the Macedonian politicians cannot string 2 words together with any significance whatsoever in comparison.

_________________
Risto the Great


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2008 23:27 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2003 05:49
Posts: 8054
Location: Toronto
If they can't do it then we should do it for them. The diaspora needs to kick in with or without their support.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 95 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
phpBB SEO