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 Post subject: UN Report: Greece must withdraw from dispute over existence
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2009 21:04 
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UN Report: Greece must withdraw from dispute over existence of Macedonian minority

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/5863/53/

Greece should withdraw from the dispute over whether there is a Macedonian or a Turkish minority on its territory and focus on protecting the rights to self-identification, freedom of expression and freedom of association of those communities, reads a recommendation in the report by the UN independent expert on minority issues Gay McDougall, who paid a visit to Greece on September 8-16, 2008.

According to McDougall, the rights of these communities to minority protections must be honoured in accordance with the Declaration on Minorities and the core international human rights treaties. Greece is required to comply fully with the judgements of the European Court of Human Rights, specifically those decisions that associations should be allowed to use the words "Macedonian" and "Turkish" in their names and to express their ethnic identities freely.

A special section in the report refers to the minorities in the Florina region. McDougall says the Greek government does not recognize the existence of a Macedonian ethnic minority living in that part of Greece, nor the existence of the Macedonian language.

"Many consider this a modern day version of Tito's efforts to create a myth of a Macedonian nation giving support to his expansionist claims against that region of Greece. The response of earlier Greek governments was to suppress any use of the Macedonian language and cultural activities. In recent times the harsh tactics have ceased but those identifying as ethnic Macedonian still report discrimination and harassment. They consider it of crucial importance for their continued existence that their ethnic identity and distinctiveness is respected", reads the report.

McDougall notes that in the 1920s and 30s, laws required the replacement of non-Greek names of towns, villages, rivers and mountains with Greek names. The family names of the Macedonian-speaking population were also required to be changed to Greek names. Community representatives note that traditional names continue to be in common usage and call for reinstatement and the official usage of a dual nomenclature.

Macedonian minority representatives claim denial of the right to freedom of association and political activity, and highlight discriminatory laws affecting thousands who fled Greece during the Civil War, who were stripped of their citizenship and property. A 1982 law stated that, "Free to return to Greece are all Greek by Genus who during the civil war of 1946-1949 and because of it have fled abroad as political refugees". This decision excludes those identifying as ethnic Macedonians and is therefore considered discriminatory.

McDougall says in the report that she had met numerous individuals identifying as ethnic Macedonians, who are fluent in Macedonian language. It was acknowledged that the situation had improved from a previous era, however they described a "softer discrimination", manifested in general hostility and pressure on the part of authorities and the media.

The report notes that Greece recognizes only one minority, the Muslim religious minority in Western Thrace, but does not recognize the minority status of other communities. The Government is convinced that the claims of the existence of other minorities are unsubstantiated and politically motivated. Greece recognizes that only a small number of people speak the Slavic dialect similar to the language spoken in the neighboring country to the north.

During the stay in Greece, McDougall travelled to different regions and conducted extensive consultations with senior government representatives and public officials at the national and regional levels, but also consulted civil society organizations, religious leaders, academics and community leaders. The independent expert is concerned with matters solely within the domestic jurisdiction of the Government of Greece relating to its treatment of minorities and disadvantaged groups inside the country. Her concerns focus on the degree to which legislation, policy and practice fulfil obligations under international human rights law, including minority rights, which have precedence over bilateral treaties and agreements.

The UN Report also notes the discrimination towards Roma in Greece. The independent expert visited Roma communities which lacked basic facilities and faced the constant threat of eviction. Many Roma children are either in segregated schools or do not have
access to education owing to their identity. //03.05.09 MiNa


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 Post subject: Re: UN Report: Greece must withdraw from dispute over existence
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2009 21:57 
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Throw this reminder on the desk of our cowardly Politicians who are ready to betray us.


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 Post subject: Re: UN Report: Greece must withdraw from dispute over existence
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2009 22:18 
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UNITED NATIONS WARNS ATHENS, GREECE

"According to McDougall, the rights of these communities to minority protections MUST be honoured in accordance with the Declaration on Minorities and the core International Human Rights treaties. Greece is required to comply FULLY with the judgements of the European Court of Human Rights, specifically those decisions that associations should be allowed to use the words "Macedonian" and "Turkish" in their names and to express their ethnic identities freely.


__________________________________________________________________________

Failure to comply will ultimately result in an expulsion from the the UN and EU organizations.

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 Post subject: Re: UN Report: Greece must withdraw from dispute over existence
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2009 23:55 
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..and I still see the Yunans finding a way out of this..

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 Post subject: Re: UN Report: Greece must withdraw from dispute over existence
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2009 23:57 
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Makedonska_Kafana wrote:
UNITED NATIONS WARNS ATHENS, GREECE

"According to McDougall, the rights of these communities to minority protections MUST be honoured in accordance with the Declaration on Minorities and the core International Human Rights treaties. Greece is required to comply FULLY with the judgements of the European Court of Human Rights, specifically those decisions that associations should be allowed to use the words "Macedonian" and "Turkish" in their names and to express their ethnic identities freely.


__________________________________________________________________________

Failure to comply will ultimately result in an expulsion from the the UN and EU organizations.

Where did you find this... i'm unable to locate this report on the UN site?

Also, McDougall's comment on tito's era and the 'Myth of Macedonia' is a total disgrace! she can go and suck my macedonian kolbas!

On this page -> http://www.un.org/apps/news/subject.asp?SubjectID=5 they have reports on Afghanistan, Maldives etc, BUT NO GREECE!!! WTF

Thats it! i'm fed up with these racist organizations... i'm going to the tattoo expo and getting a patriotic tattoo, and anyone who questions it will receive a high dose of a Macedonian Shlakajntsa!


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 Post subject: Re: UN Report: Greece must withdraw from dispute over existence
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2009 00:19 
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Quote:
40. The Kingdom of Ancient Macedonia is part of the Hellenic historical and cultural heritage,
reclaimed by modern Greece, and with a population of primarily ethnic Greeks, despite
linguistic variations due to historical influence. The government points to the archaeological
sites including Vergina, where tombs of King Phillip II and Alexander IV dating back to the 3rd Century BC were unearthed in the 1970s. Artefacts including these tombs display ancient
Greek inscriptions considered by the government to confirm that the region and its people are
historically Greek.12



Interesting use of language.

The Kingdom of Ancient Macedonia is "a part of" the hellenic historical and cultural heritage. That doesn't mean that the Kingdom was hellenic. It means that the rule of Macedonia over Greece was a part of ancient Greece's heritage. In the same way, the Ottoman empire was a part of Macedonia's historical and cultural heritage. Or perhaps Greece will one day say that Turks have been hellenic since antiquity because they used to own and occupy Greece :lol.

The phrase highlighted in red is a gem!

The report is overall quite positive in that it calls for Greece to end their idiotic stance about debating our existence.

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 Post subject: Re: UN Report: Greece must withdraw from dispute over existence
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2009 00:49 
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Here it is
http://www.macedoniancommunity.com/repo ... s_2008.pdf

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 Post subject: Re: UN Report: Greece must withdraw from dispute over existence
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2009 01:05 
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“I am a Greek citizen … but I am Macedonian when talking about my
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 Post subject: Re: UN Report: Greece must withdraw from dispute over existence
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2009 02:07 
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Bushav wrote:
Quote:
40. The Kingdom of Ancient Macedonia is part of the Hellenic historical and cultural heritage,
reclaimed by modern Greece, and with a population of primarily ethnic Greeks, despite
linguistic variations due to historical influence. The government points to the archaeological
sites including Vergina, where tombs of King Phillip II and Alexander IV dating back to the 3rd Century BC were unearthed in the 1970s. Artefacts including these tombs display ancient
Greek inscriptions considered by the government to confirm that the region and its people are
historically Greek.12



Interesting use of language.

The Kingdom of Ancient Macedonia is "a part of" the hellenic historical and cultural heritage. That doesn't mean that the Kingdom was hellenic. It means that the rule of Macedonia over Greece was a part of ancient Greece's heritage. In the same way, the Ottoman empire was a part of Macedonia's historical and cultural heritage. Or perhaps Greece will one day say that Turks have been hellenic since antiquity because they used to own and occupy Greece :lol.

The phrase highlighted in red is a gem!

The report is overall quite positive in that it calls for Greece to end their idiotic stance about debating our existence.


:D

I noticed that as well.

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 Post subject: Re: UN Report: Greece must withdraw from dispute over existence
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2009 08:22 
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First greek official reaction:
Quote:
GREEK DEMOCRACY - MINISTRY OF Foreign Affairs - Service of Briefing and Public Diplomacy
Athens, 5 March 2009
Statement of Representative of Ministry of Foreign Affairs Mr G. Koumoutsakos with regard to the Independent Expert of UN Mrs McDougall Report on subjects on minorities.
With regard to the Report of Independent Expert of United Nations on subjects on minorities, Greece is to present analytically its positions Tuesday in the Council of Human Rights in Geneva. Our positions are crystal and they abut in the absolute respect of human rights, principle that is granted also for the minorities, and recommends realisation of Modern Greek Democracy. In our country, each Greek citizen has the undisputable individual right of self-definition and the concern of State for the aid and the protection of human rights is permanent and effective. This policy abuts in our solid conviction that the mechanisms of protection and intensification of human rights should finally strengthen the harmonious coexistence of all citizens of the State. For this reason the mechanisms in question should not be transformed, directly or indirectly, in chances or alibi for certain people, who consciously attempt to exploit them for promotion of personal aims in the level of inter-state relations. Also, it will not be supposed they are rendered tool in the hands of those that for mercenary aims seek to culture disputes and climate of tension in the interior of a society.

http://www.ana.gr/anaweb/user/selectlan ... %3D7377643
Same old greek bull s...t! :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: UN Report: Greece must withdraw from dispute over existence
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2009 13:15 
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vodenka wrote:
First greek official reaction:
Quote:
GREEK DEMOCRACY - MINISTRY OF Foreign Affairs - Service of Briefing and Public Diplomacy
Athens, 5 March 2009
Statement of Representative of Ministry of Foreign Affairs Mr G. Koumoutsakos with regard to the Independent Expert of UN Mrs McDougall Report on subjects on minorities.
With regard to the Report of Independent Expert of United Nations on subjects on minorities, Greece is to present analytically its positions Tuesday in the Council of Human Rights in Geneva. Our positions are crystal and they abut in the absolute respect of human rights, principle that is granted also for the minorities, and recommends realisation of Modern Greek Democracy. In our country, each Greek citizen has the undisputable individual right of self-definition and the concern of State for the aid and the protection of human rights is permanent and effective. This policy abuts in our solid conviction that the mechanisms of protection and intensification of human rights should finally strengthen the harmonious coexistence of all citizens of the State. For this reason the mechanisms in question should not be transformed, directly or indirectly, in chances or alibi for certain people, who consciously attempt to exploit them for promotion of personal aims in the level of inter-state relations. Also, it will not be supposed they are rendered tool in the hands of those that for mercenary aims seek to culture disputes and climate of tension in the interior of a society.

http://www.ana.gr/anaweb/user/selectlan ... %3D7377643
Same old greek bull s...t! :twisted:


"The decision that a certain group should
receive the protections due to minorities does not have implications for inter-State relations.
Minorities are constituent groups of Greek society, not a foreign element."

"The Government does not recognize the existence of a Macedonian ethnic minority living
in Central and West Macedonia. They vehemently deny it and attribute political motives to those
who claim it."

They just did in their statement what the report accused them of.

:lol

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 Post subject: Re: UN Report: Greece must withdraw from dispute over existence
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2009 23:36 
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The Greek position is incoherent, the UN is telling Greece to fuck off and stop denying the existence of its minorities, to show them proper respect, and here we have Koutsoumakis eating shit in public, again.


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 Post subject: Re: UN Report: Greece must withdraw from dispute over existence
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2009 23:46 
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Fuck them. Brain dead Yunans.

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 Post subject: Re: UN Report: Greece must withdraw from dispute over existence
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2009 23:52 
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Clearly nobody can change the path greece is taking...no outside force is capable of changing their soiled internal politics of discrimination and racism, the UN as 'protector' of these rights is powerless whilst the EU buries its collective head in the sand often to cover up the human rights abuses committed elsewhere in the 'Union'...

Change will only happen with the aid of people power from within...at the moment the Macedonian minority within modern greece is defined by what is written on a piece of paper and open for debate and counter claim...those numbers need a face and an identity, those numbers need 'life' breathed into them so they can stand up as 'real' people with 'real' problems, facing 'real' discrimination and 'real' racism...

People power is the most powerful tool capable of producing real social change and I honestly believe if the Macedonian minority in modern greece could slowly raise against the oppressor that the build up of momentum and support from the diaspora will be massive...

At some point more and more ethnic Macedonians in modern greece have to put up their hand and say..."Yes...I'm one of those people in that report and I want my rights to self-determination respected"


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 Post subject: Re: UN Report: Greece must withdraw from dispute over existence
PostPosted: 07 Mar 2009 00:08 
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I completely disagree with your view on this Phoenix.

The issue of the persecution of minorities in Greece is akin to Apartheid, and the pressure should come from external forces. Greece, really and truly is too stupid to overcome its virulent racism without a lot of help.


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 Post subject: Re: UN Report: Greece must withdraw from dispute over existence
PostPosted: 07 Mar 2009 01:05 
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maknews...

Quote:
I completely disagree with your view on this Phoenix.

The issue of the persecution of minorities in Greece is akin to Apartheid, and the pressure should come from external forces. Greece, really and truly is too stupid to overcome its virulent racism without a lot of help.
I completely disagree with your view on this Phoenix.

The issue of the persecution of minorities in Greece is akin to Apartheid, and the pressure should come from external forces. Greece, really and truly is too stupid to overcome its virulent racism without a lot of help.


maknews, I completely disagree with the parallels you draw with South Africa and apartheid...In South Africa the blacks were the majority population, some 20 million blacks lived there compared to a figure of around 4 million whites...the distinctions were more than obvious, the problem was in your face whereas the Macedonians have 'blended' into 'greek' society, so long as they're prepared to be 'good greeks' there's no problem...

The Macedonians in greece don't have high profile charasmatic leaders and organizations like Mandela and the ANC, the Macedonian minority in modern greece can't politicize their lack of rights for the movement to gain international support...

South Africa and its problems were easily portrayed as a 3rd World issue, modern greece is clearly in the ranks of the 1st World, rightly or wrongly and therefor the international community doesn't focus on its shortcomings...

Don't get me wrong I totally agree with you that the external pressure needs to be maintained but without an internal movement nothing will be achieved...
This report has just been released by the UN and the 'greeks' have immediately come out to negate its message...Imagine if 20,000 Macedonians hit the streets in peaceful protest and demanded their rights...surely the 'greek' authorities would look foolish and the international media would take notice and the campaigners would be justified...instead nobody from inside raises a squeak in defiance and the international community is confused as to the existence of the Macedonian or any other minority in modern greece...


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 Post subject: Re: UN Report: Greece must withdraw from dispute over existence
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2009 05:06 
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We'll have to agree to disagree. In my analysis, Greece is not competent to deal with its congenital racism.


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 Post subject: Re: UN Report: Greece must withdraw from dispute over existence
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2009 06:44 
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On Tuesday we'll see Greece's response.

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