Did anyone else hear about the discovery of these coins earlier this month? Below is the report:

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CBS NEWS Reports

DAMASCUS, Syria, March 4, 2010

Alexander the Great Coins Found in Syria

Coins With the Macedonian King's Image Discovered in a Box By Man Digging Foundation for His Home

(AP) More than 250 silver coins dating back to the time of Alexander the Great were unearthed in northern Syria, a Syrian archaeologist said Thursday.

Youssef Kanjo, the head of archaeological excavations in the ancient city of Aleppo, said the coins were discovered two weeks ago in northern Syria when a local man was digging the foundations of his new home.

The man handed the coins, that were found in a bonze box, to authorities, Kanjo said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press.

The coins date from the Hellenic period, which ranges from 4th to the 1st centuries B.C. after Macedonian warrior-king Alexander the Great spread Greek culture into Middle East and beyond with his conquests.

Kanjo added that the box contained two groups of coins, 137 "tetra" drachmas (four drachmas) and 115 single drachma coins.

One side of the tetra drachma coins depicts Alexander the Great, while the other side shows the Greek god Zeus sitting on a throne with an eagle perched on his extended arm.

Some of the coins bear the inscription King Alexander in Greek, while others say Alexander or carry the name of King Philip, most likely referring to his father.

After Alexander the Great's conquests, many of the successor kingdoms in the Middle East adopted drachmas as their currency.

"The discovery is extremely important and would be added to our archaeological treasures that date back to the Hellenic era," Kanjo said.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/03/ ... 6975.shtml


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Just interested to hear, were there many nations in antiquity who used Greek Gods like Zeus on their coins or on any of their cultural material, but who nevertheless were not Greek?

I'm not asking this facetiously, I'm genuinely interested in whether what is now constructed as Greek culture had non-Greek participants in its spread throughout antiquity.

A good question I suppose is whether the Greeks have right to claim exclusivity over the Gods, or if they developed internationally in the area, and have been retrospectively dubbed 'Greek' Gods.

Cheers.

Oops, can someone move this to the Macedonian Archaeological News thread?

Sorry.

Romans had similar gods to greeks if not identical. Zeus = Jupiter, Dionysos = Bacchus, ect...
However it was always in Latin form whereas macedonians deities were always in greek form.
There is still no evidence that shows any other type of language or naming convention used by macedonians to identify their gods. Thracians had it...even illyrians to some extent

As far as exclusivity is concerned. Well its common knowledge that romans infused greek gods to their own religion. The same arguement can be applied of greek mythology as well from other influences in the region. But at the end of the day it was exclusive to greeks in a very unique way. Unique enough to still stand the test of time and have schools dedicate full classes to it.

Can non-greek ppl helped expand hellenism ? I sure dont see a reason why they could not have. But again, at the end of the day it is culture and language that matters. Its pretty obvious which culture was spread at that time.

Menelaos, how exactly was it exclusive to Greeks in a unique way? What time has it stood the test of and what schools dedicated classes to it? What period are you referring to?

As to which culture and language was spread, I suppose the issue is, is this exclusively a Greek language and culture or is even the language and culture the result of a Multi-ethnic mix? E.g. is part of the language the Phoenician alphabet? Is Zeus an Egyptian equivalent?

Cheers for your response by the way

Well, the fact that nature and other parts of life were investigated with scientific methods and not because the Gods had willed it. It provided freedom of thought and while religion played a significant role in everyday life of a greek...it did not cut off their compacity to think in scientific or philiosophical terms.



The impact that greek literature and mythology had in the world is unprecedented. Even today they make 3-D films about them... . When I went to college we had classes dedicated to Greek mythology, class was never empty...



Only at the end did it start to take on a multi-culture flavor...and as a result the term " hellenistic " was created. Alexanders dream was to create a greek-babylonian empire.
But still, after the vast amounts of land conquered it would only be natural to be influenced as you go. Regarding the phoenician alphabet...what about it ? Alot is said about this, but nothing really solid. Egyptian equvialent to Zeus? , maybe Horus ? I dont know, i remember little of egyptian gods. We have to be carefull of overgeneralizing...that can be done with anything if you put your mind on it.

Candour said;


I don't think that there is exclusivity on certain Gods. Alexander the Great himself worshipped at the Phoenician god Melcart's temple after the siege of tyre - http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/sh ... php?t=1759

This 'Hellenism' you guys speak of is it found in any ancient scripture during the time of Alexander III?

So it was exclusive in the sense that it didn't interfere with Greek philosophy? Hmm, ok, though even that claim to exclusivity can be questioned; after all, wasn't one of the reasons that Socrates was tried that he undermined belief in the Gods? As trumped up as the charge may have been, it does show the tension between philosophy and theology.

But that aside, even if we accept this unique relationship the Greeks had to the Gods, it doesn't to me show them having some kind of right to exclusivity for them, or a relationship which showed a serious tie to them, if they could in fact comingle with philosophical and naturalistic explanations of life....



Ahh, I see what you mean.

I'm not convinced this general cultural acceptance isn't anything more than just that, general cultural acceptance, without much reasoning behind why they are referred to as Greek.

Perhaps, if Greeks want to make a claim to their unique relationship to the Gods, the best way to make that claim is to say that the vast amount of cultural output related to the Gods (through poetry, architecture, sculpture, pottery and other artistic mediums) were created by Greeks, thus giving the Gods a central force as being Greek.



Well, the letters the Greeks use are Phoenician. That has some relevance.

As for the Egyptian God, I was thinking of Amon...

TM, let's take it as a given that Hellenism was a retrospectively applied label that had no currency in ancient times.

Moving beyond that point, do you think that Greek nationality is itself a construct retrospectively applied to what are known as the people of ancient Greece?

If the answer to that is no, do you think that unless the Greeks have a rigid definition of Greekness, they are illegitimate as a people?

I mean, beyond assenting to be something what really IS essential to national belonging? The question really, is what is necessary to be regarded as someone of a particular nation other than assent? If there was a Greek that didn't believe in the Greek Gods, was he not a Greek? If there was a Greek living on the border of Greek geography and spoke more Illyrian than Greek, does that mean he is not Greek? If there is someone speaking Greek, but living in a foreign land, does that mean he is not Greek? What exactly makes someone the nationality they claim to be?

Yes, I agree with that as well. When I mean exclusive, I mean to the Greek ethnos. That doesnt mean you are not allowed to pay tribute to foreign gods. Many muslims in istanbul pay visit to byzantine churches to light a candle or say a prayer during easter or christmas. That doesnt mean they worship Christ the same way we do.
If Alexander indeed prayed in Tyre that doesnt mean anything significant.

also, can you pls expand on what you mean by hellenism being in ancient scripture ? Dont know what you mean...

Agreed...that can be said as well. Its more or less how you look at it.



Cyrllic alphabet has greek letters, but that doesnt mean much does it ? Philistines are said to be of a " greek " origin. Philistines and Phoenicians come from the same place if Im not mistaken. There are a lot of grey areas regarding the phoenician influence of our alphabet.

If we start to doubt that greek gods werent greek, that the greek language wasnt greek and that the greek ppl arent greek...then we might as well start all over and question the fact if the earth is really a sphere. If the sun in fact revolves around earth and not the other way around. And if indeed we are really human and not some form of an advanced ape....

The word " ethnos " answers all of your questions above. It doesnt really have to do much with DNA either...

Well, there's no harm in admitting foreign influence if there is evidence for it. If anything it should work to break barriers down and bring us closer together by realising how we engage in over-reach sometimes in making claims to exclusivity. To me that's a positive thing.



Here's the definition of an 'ethnic group' on wiki. What do you think of it?

"An ethnic group is a group of people whose members identify with each other, through a common heritage that is real or assumed- sharing cultural characteristics. This shared heritage may be based upon putative common ancestry, history, kinship, religion, language, shared territory, nationality or physical appearance. Members of an ethnic group are conscious of belonging to an ethnic group; moreover ethnic identity is further marked by the recognition from others of a group's distinctiveness."

Do you agree with it? It's interesting that it says common heritage which is real or assumed. Kind of saying facts aren't even necessary.

About the DNA point, if a group became conscious of some feature of DNA as distnguishing them, then that could be a reason to make an ethnic distinction I suppose.

It seems the whole concept of ethnicity is pretty fluid.

Of course not, never said there was. Im all for breaking barriers, mainly the reason why im here.



100 % and yes, the real or assumed part was a nice touch.

Religion has always transcendented Societies and Ethnicity. To look at some Archaic form of Religion and try to find some Ethnic connection, when other hostilities between the same people existed and are not to be overseen, is just as silly as to think that the Orthodox believers are one and the same Ethnic Group!

Of course religion transcends ppl...nobody said it doesnt.
Religions such as Christianity, Islam and Judaism ( to an extent ) have transcended barriers due to the amount of time given. We are talking about a couple thousand years of continuity and growth for these religions. Pagan religions on the other hand were indeed connected to ethnic groups. See Vikings, Celts, Greeks, Egyptians,Romans,Etruscans,Basques, ect....

That is not quite true. Even though modern people tend to see it like that, neighboring people were sharing religious affiliations and aspects. The only difference is that they were mixing everything together.

Ancient Greeks shared many Egyptian, Thracia, Phrygian, Pelasgian etc. Gods (that was also wise versa in other cases), only that they gave them other names. Even the name giving was sometimes only variation or an epithets.

Those Greek Gods are ought to be called Mediteranean instead.

Ancient Macedonians worshiped the Mediteranean Gods as well.

Mk,
Zeus = Greek God
Odin = Norse God ( norse mythology is awesome )
Jupiter = Roman God
Horus = Egyptian God

Each of the above religions were connected to a particular ethnos. Thats not to say that they didnt share or respect neighboring religions. I agree with you that espescially in regards to the Pelasgians there may have been influences. But at the same time we shouldnt confuse the two subjects. If we over generalize everything than nothing is as it seems. Greek, Egyptian, and Norse mythology are completely distinct from each other.

I added a northern pagan religion by mistake. I noticed you were talking about mediterrenean region. Again, if you have evidence of greeks using egyptian, thracian, gods as their own, then i would like to see some sources to that. Orpheus can be a good example.

Candour said;


An unnatural construct with the aid of foreigners.



The point is not to have a rigid definition of this so-called "greekness" but to accept certain realities of how it came about.


All nations today are the modern constructs of either
a) Revolutionary minds
b) Political minds
c) Foreigners minds
You want a clear cut answer on how it is to be 'legitimate' and try and lump all the nations in the world together into the same pile and I tell you that's not possible.



That depends on what era we are talking about. What is nationality in antiquity?

menelaos said;


Any ancient source that uses the word 'hellenism' or 'hellenisimos' during Alexander III reign?