* Return to the MakNews.com Homepage *Macedonia Forum

Macedonian discussion forum for News and Macedonian affairs.
It is currently 23 May 2012 07:31

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Macedonian Imigration in Russia 1763 - 1765 - Russian Hussar
PostPosted: 20 Dec 2007 09:15 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 19 May 2005 10:49
Posts: 486
We all know this Documents.

And we all know the reply's of our negators. Those documents must be forgery, say one or the other, for example typical Syggros reply.

Well I searched the Russian paper "Vprosy Istorii" before few days ago, and I found this:

Voprosy istorii
1988-04-30VPI-No. 004
Pages:174-180

For download posibilities, look down in my next post, reply to Jordan.

the passages are translated with http://babelfish.altavista.com/ so I apologize for the rough translation.

I will just highlighten what is significant for us:



Quote:
Ниже предпринята попытка рассказать об их происхождении и о том времени, когда первые гусарские полки России состояли почти исключительно из иноземцев (сербов, болгар, македонцев, молдаван), поступивших в российскую службу.


translation:

Quote:
Is undertaken below the attempt to describe about their origin and about that time, when the first hussar regiments of Russia consisted almost exclusively of foreigners (Serbians, Bulgarians, Macedonians, Moldavians), who entered into the Russian service.


next one:

Quote:
В результате создалась возможность сформировать в Новой Сербии еще два полка: Македонский и Болгарский полевые гусарские из холостых и одиноких людей, не пожелавших хозяйствовать в поселении. Из семейных поселенцев в Новой Сербии для Новомиргородского шанца был создан гарнизон в 100 гренадеров и 200 мушкетеров; при этом Хорват просил "набирать и комплектовать оной из иностранного же православного четырех национов, сербского, македонского,болгарского и волохского народов и быть им на основании пандурского пехотного полка"14 .


translation:

Quote:
As a result the possibility to form the two additional regiments in new Serbia was created: Macedonian and Bulgarian field hussar from the unmarried and lonely people, which did not wish to manage in the settling. From the family settlers in new Serbia for The novomirgorodskogo trench was created the garrison into 100 grenadiers and 200 musketeers; however, in this case the Croat requested "to collect and to complete by the afore-mentioned from the foreign orthodox of four nations, Serbian, Macedonian, Bulgarian and Vlachian peoples and to be it on the basis of pandurskogo infantry polka"yya.


next one:

Quote:
В 1763 и 1765 гг. были введены новые штаты, что вызвало переформирование гусарских полков и изменение практики набора людей в них. Ввиду огромной некомплектности полков дозволено было "как болгар, сербов, македонцев и волохов не хватает, то принимать беглых малороссов и великороссов, и уже вышедших... определять в гусарский, пандурский и Слободские полки", но только людей "вольных, а не крепостных из российских подданных".


translation:

Quote:
Into 1763 and 1765 were introduced new states, that caused the reformation of hussar it was regimental and a change of the practice of the collection of people in them. In view of the enormous incompleteness it was permissible regimental "as Bulgarians, Serbians, Macedonians and volokhov do not be sufficient, then assume quick malorossov and Great Russians, and already left... to determine into hussar, the pandurskiy and suburban regiments", but only people "free, and not serfs Russian those yielded".



as you can see, those Documents are well known to the Russians as well, and very existent, on contrary what our negators would like to convince us.

_________________
So far has Athens left the rest of mankind behind in thought and expression that her pupils have become the teachers of the world, and she has made the name of Hellas distinctive no longer of race but of intellect, and the title of Hellene a badge of education rather than of common descent. Isocrates


Last edited by mk on 20 Dec 2007 14:05, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 20 Dec 2007 10:22 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 02 Nov 2005 06:46
Posts: 930
Thanks mk, but you need to repost that PDF-file, it is not working.

And this information is connected with the information posted in this thread:
http://www.maknews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2498


So now we have confirmed the document from several sources, can we claim them as valid now? Are they good for you Greeks? :twisted:

_________________
Smrt ili Sloboda


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 20 Dec 2007 10:45 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 19 May 2005 10:49
Posts: 486
Jordan Piperkata wrote:
Thanks mk, but you need to repost that PDF-file, it is not working.


my pleasure Jordan.

Well it has something to do with the copyright. I guess they delete it cause only registred users can download it and see it.


if it does not open, you have to go here:

http://dlib.eastview.com

register, enter the the Title of the article in the search box, and there you go.

other wise when you get registered,
permanent article address is:
http://dlib.eastview.com.proxy.national ... id=7120441

_________________
So far has Athens left the rest of mankind behind in thought and expression that her pupils have become the teachers of the world, and she has made the name of Hellas distinctive no longer of race but of intellect, and the title of Hellene a badge of education rather than of common descent. Isocrates


Last edited by mk on 20 Dec 2007 13:57, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 20 Dec 2007 13:06 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 17 Mar 2006 15:51
Posts: 848
Location: Diaspora
Good work, anybody got any more information abou the macedonian regiment in the russian army?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 20 Dec 2007 14:24 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 02 Nov 2005 06:46
Posts: 930
Komita wrote:
Good work, anybody got any more information abou the macedonian regiment in the russian army?


Read here Komita;
Jordan Piperkata wrote:
And this information is connected with the information posted in this thread:
http://www.maknews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2498

_________________
Smrt ili Sloboda


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 20 Dec 2007 21:10 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 17 Mar 2006 15:51
Posts: 848
Location: Diaspora
Jordan Piperkata wrote:
Komita wrote:
Good work, anybody got any more information abou the macedonian regiment in the russian army?


Read here Komita;
Jordan Piperkata wrote:
And this information is connected with the information posted in this thread:
http://www.maknews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2498
Fala Piperka.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 20 Dec 2007 21:45 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 02 Nov 2005 06:46
Posts: 930
Komita wrote:
Fala Piperka.


nishto, nishto.... :D

_________________
Smrt ili Sloboda


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 21 Dec 2007 05:38 
There are Russo-Macedonian Brigades fighting under their own flag and banner to liberate Serbia during the middle to late 19th century - and later Bulgaria.

There is some information on this in the first half of the book:

Pandevski, Manol., Macedonia and the Macedonians in the Eastern Crisis: (There is an English translation of this book out there).

For those interested he also quotes Petko Slavejkov a bit.


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
phpBB SEO