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 Post subject: The Macedonian Flag/Bajrak
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2008 13:44 
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This is the well known Miyak bayrak. It's a kind of Macedonian flag, used since ancient times. It was forbiden when the Ottomans conquered Macedonia, so the only ones who steel kept using it were the Miyaks(Western Macedonians) becouse they were living in very high-mountanous regions.

There are two of this flags that survived untill modern days, originating from Kostur/Kastoria. In the city-sphere of Kostur, was in use untill the middle 19century, when it was officialy forbiden from the Ottomans, under FANARIOTE pressure. (ИСАЙЯ МАЖОВСКИ "Възпоминания", София, 1922 г., 19/20 стр.)


The Miyak, Isaia Mazhovski (1852-1922) writes that this flag was in use in Macedonia, since the split of Alexander Empire into the hands of his dukes.(ИСАЙЯ МАЖОВСКИ "Възпоминания", София, 1922 г., 19/20 стр.)



About the flag.
Central symbol - We all know it well, the symbol of Maco's since ancient times.
The Cross - Meaning Jesus Christ the victor.
The Two-headed Eagle. Representing the spiritual unity of the world, the world ruling Macedonian empire. Is it true that Alexander and his descendants ruled out both Europe and Asia.
The Lion - Symbol of Macedonian strenght and victory
The Dragon - Symbol of the Celts/Gauls, who were invading Macedonia hundreds of times.
The Moon and star - Symbol of the Bogomils, who flourished in Macedonia.

Isaia Mazhovski, also speaks about a song originating since the time of the Macedonian empire after Alexander's death, when his dukes ruled.

“Застоjaл ми се воjвода,
Над големи град Солуна,
До него стоjaт два брата,
Два брата, два баjрактара
Високо баjрак држеје.
Тихиoт ветeр вееше,
Широко знаме ширеше,
Широка сенка држеше.
Све Солун града покрило,
И солунските чаршии,
В чаршии има седлари
И е млади златари,
Седлари седла правеjе,
Златари јузди лееје,
За тиа силни ајгри,
На македонските војводи.

ИСАЙЯ МАЖОВСКИ „Възпоминания”, София, 1922 г., 20 стр.


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 Post subject: Re: The Macedonian Flag/Bajrak
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2008 14:01 
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Voya wrote:
The Moon and star - Symbol of the Bogomils, who flourished in Macedonia.


hmmm...i m not sure about thisone. i d rather say it is byzantin symbol since its known that creasent moon was coat of arms of the konstantinopoli aka nowdays istanbul. but i m not sure...


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PostPosted: 30 Jan 2008 14:11 
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I was wondering the same too to be honest, but who knows, maybe we can start to search more about the Bogomils ;)

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 Post subject: Re: The Macedonian Flag/Bajrak
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2008 14:13 
bosnian wrote:
i d rather say it is byzantin symbol since its known that creasent moon was coat of arms of the konstantinopoli aka nowdays istanbul. but i m not sure...


You are right. It was the coat of arms of the Byzantines after a victorious for the Byzantines end of a siege, when the crescent moon appeared above the dome of Aghia Sophia.

The double headed eagle was the flag of the Nicea Empire, that was fighting both against the Turks to the East and the Franks to the West.


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 Post subject: Re: The Macedonian Flag/Bajrak
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2008 14:21 
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Andreas Syggros wrote:
bosnian wrote:
i d rather say it is byzantin symbol since its known that creasent moon was coat of arms of the konstantinopoli aka nowdays istanbul. but i m not sure...


You are right. It was the coat of arms of the Byzantines after a victorious for the Byzantines end of a siege, when the crescent moon appeared above the dome of Aghia Sophia.

The double headed eagle was the flag of the Nicea Empire, that was fighting both against the Turks to the East and the Franks to the West.


And the Turks started using it since they conquered Constantinopole. Double-Headed eagle is used by many nations worldwide.

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 Post subject: Re: The Macedonian Flag/Bajrak
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2008 14:26 
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Voya wrote:
Andreas Syggros wrote:
bosnian wrote:
i d rather say it is byzantin symbol since its known that creasent moon was coat of arms of the konstantinopoli aka nowdays istanbul. but i m not sure...


You are right. It was the coat of arms of the Byzantines after a victorious for the Byzantines end of a siege, when the crescent moon appeared above the dome of Aghia Sophia.

The double headed eagle was the flag of the Nicea Empire, that was fighting both against the Turks to the East and the Franks to the West.


And the Turks started using it since they conquered Constantinopole. Double-Headed eagle is used by many nations worldwide.


yes, turks started to use it cause they wanted to be powerfull as byzant was. so taking over konstantinopili flag was symbolic thing..concernig the bogomils. generaly, bogomils were against any symbols, esspecially symboll of cross. but in bosnia, bogomil monuments have cross symbol..during middle age, bosnia was "rome" for bogomil and other "heretic" movements such as franch catars.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2008 14:28 
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is this about the moon and star we're talking about?

i didn't realise that its spread to the islamic world started from turkey.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2008 14:29 
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Where did you get this from Voya?
It sounds interesting, and the poem is really cool.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2008 14:32 
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http://makedonskaistorija.blog.com.mk/node/106408

Many interesting stuff on the whole blog, expecialy about the bulgars.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2008 14:35 
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Cool, thanks. It would be good to get more sources on this.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2008 14:42 
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Quote:
The Dragon - Symbol of the Celts/Gauls, who were invading Macedonia hundreds of times.


Why just Celts? Dragon was one of the most popular creature in all Slavic folktales. The Eastern Slavs carried the symbol of the dragon everywhere, their armor was made of plates that resembled dragon scales and their bands (barjaks) had the tops in shape of a dragon head.
The name Serb has the same root as does Latin 'serpent'. The root 'ser' however means 'Sun' since the dragons were connected to it. The dragon was the symbol of great wisdom of force and power in much of the Slavic world.
It is interesting that in the Slavic world, unlike in ancient Greek States where it was the Owl, the animals who were symbols of wisdom were the serpent, hence the dragon, and the bear. The Serpent King was said to posses all the knowledge of the world and he would pass it to anyone who could understand the language of the animals ('Nemušti jezik' - 'Parseltongue'). The bear was considered to be the 'wise cursed one' as the legends say he was once a human being that was cursed by a powerful witch for tricking her.
The Greeks had the Owl because she could see in the 'dark' (but not so well in day light). ;)

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Last edited by The Anomaly on 30 Jan 2008 14:49, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2008 14:47 
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Everything is possible Slovak, even for the crescent, even for the Dragon, but Isaia wrote so in his book, a century ago.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2008 14:49 
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dam Slovak, one thing you said just fitted with something else i had noticed a while back..

the sun and the snake.

the sun was viewed as the symbol of life and the snake was viewed as the symbol of death. i noted that the oro (or kolo as it is known in serbia) resembles both a sun (circuilar in nature) and also a snake in the way it curls around (there is always a clear head and tail to the macedonian dances). Thus, it seems to me that it symbolises the cycle of life. *

At the same time, you mentioned that the word "Serb" resembles both the snake and also the sun. This is another example of such a balance between life-death. I wonder if that is connected at all.


* This circle "oro" dancing is not so common as you go north towards say slovenia or croatia, nor does it reach africa or saudi arabia. If you were to place a pin on each region in eurasia which dance in this fashion, i think you will find the map of ancient macedon. Interesting eh?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2008 14:51 
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dejance wrote:
Cool, thanks. It would be good to get more sources on this.


Even the Avatar u have, is on the site.

It represents the Macedonian colony of Sanks Petersburg. A flag where there is the Sun and Bucephalus.

On another forum, i said that to a "geek", he started laughing out about the horse, something like the horse didn't looked like bucephalus at all. A total prick, that flag is 150 years old minimum, a colonial flag of the Macedonians. I've never noticed a symbol or flag, since ancient times untill now where Greeks use the Sun, Lion or Bucephalus. It's normal, those Greeks in whose all believe, did not existed for true.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2008 14:56 
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We Slovaks rarely dance the 'kolo' or 'oro' as you say in Macedonian. But we have something different. The dances like waltz are originally western Slavic dances and most Slovak dances are in fact waltzes, but a bit different. You see, instead of grabbing hands and moving in a circle, we instead have two people, man and a women, that spin in a circle, similar to dervishes. Too bad there isn't a video for me to show you. It's not like the classical waltzes. This is something very different.

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 Post subject: Re: The Macedonian Flag/Bajrak
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2008 15:10 
Voya wrote:
IC XP

NI KA


This is definitely Greek.

IΗΣΟΥΣ ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ
ΝΙΚΑ

or, in Byzantine letters

IΗCΟΥΣ ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ
ΝΙΚΑ

Jesus Christ
Wins

The fool in Greek is :
"Jesus Christ wins and chases away all evil"


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 Post subject: Re: The Macedonian Flag/Bajrak
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2008 15:12 
Andreas Syggros wrote:
Voya wrote:
IC XP

NI KA


This is definitely Greek.

IΗΣΟΥΣ ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ
ΝΙΚΑ

or, in Byzantine letters

IΗCΟΥC ΧΡΙΣΤΟC
ΝΙΚΑ

Jesus Christ
Wins

The fool in Greek is :
"Jesus Christ wins and chases away all evil"


"ΙΗCOYC XPICTOC NIKA KAI ΟΛΑ ΤΑ ΚΑΚΑ CKOPΠΑ"


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 Post subject: Re: The Macedonian Flag/Bajrak
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2008 15:13 
Andreas Syggros wrote:
Voya wrote:
IC XP

NI KA


This is definitely Greek.

IΗΣΟΥΣ ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ
ΝΙΚΑ

or, in Byzantine letters

IΗCΟΥC ΧΡΙΣΤΟC
ΝΙΚΑ

Jesus Christ
Wins

The fool in Greek is :
"Jesus Christ wins and chases away all evil"

"ΙΗCOYC XPICTOC NIKA KAI ΟΛΑ ΤΑ ΚΑΚΑ CKOPΠΑ"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2008 15:17 
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You mean ISUS HRISTOS NIKATOR(JESUS CHRIST VICTOR). Yeah, ofcourse i understand what you say Andreas. In the Balkans, Koine was the language of the bible ;)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2008 15:18 
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Slovák wrote:
We Slovaks rarely dance the 'kolo' or 'oro' as you say in Macedonian. But we have something different. The dances like waltz are originally western Slavic dances and most Slovak dances are in fact waltzes, but a bit different. You see, instead of grabbing hands and moving in a circle, we instead have two people, man and a women, that spin in a circle, similar to dervishes. Too bad there isn't a video for me to show you. It's not like the classical waltzes. This is something very different.


Well i hope you will find some and show us ;)

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