Vlachs in modern "greek" society

TrueMacedonian · **Joined:** 14 Apr 2005 01:32 **Posts:** 4846

Pg.370

Tsakarbakar · **Joined:** 04 Jan 2009 16:23 **Posts:** 1

Do you believe that you are a pure-blooded race.You have also the same Vlach genes as the Greeks.Take a look here:

But wait a moment,the author is not refering to you.He speaks about Slavs and you are Macedonians,oh i forgot it!

TrueMacedonian · **Joined:** 14 Apr 2005 01:32 **Posts:** 4846

Tsakarbakar wrote:

Do you believe that you are a pure-blooded race.You have also the same Vlach genes as the Greeks.Take a look here:

But wait a moment,the author is not refering to you.He speaks about Slavs and you are Macedonians,oh i forgot it!

I never said Macedonians were a pure race. And I never would. The point of every post is to show how thoroughly non-"greek" the citizens of modern "greece" are. The falsification of their own history to the falsification of everyone else's history just to keep the myth of Byron, Hugo, Shelley,etc. alive that todays "greek" has something to do with the dead ancient race of Hellenes. Even in a cultural sense.
Now you coming in here and trying to throw off this topic is a big no no. So now that I answered you you get one warning. Stay on topic or don't bother posting.

TrueMacedonian · **Joined:** 14 Apr 2005 01:32 **Posts:** 4846

You see this is why you get banned. It happened so many times that we know what you little mongrels are trying to do. You come in and try and take a topic off topic. I don't care if you have a counter-arguement to what I have posted. I have posted alot,,,and I mean ALOT about what makes one a modern "greek" today. If you want to have a counter arguement then go ahead and start another thread. But then again you broke the rule and so now you're banned :lol

My god all that posting and for nothing. It would have been so simple if you only started another topic to defend your plastic ethnicity and culture :shake

Yannis · **Posted:** 09 Jan 2009 19:02

Wow Tsakarbakar....I saw you making sacrifice in the Hera's temple yesterday and paying tribute to Zeus. A full continuity from the ancient hellenes. :kooky

TrueMacedonian · **Joined:** 14 Apr 2005 01:32 **Posts:** 4846

Yannis wrote:

Wow Tsakarbakar....I saw you making sacrifice in the Hera's temple yesterday and paying tribute to Zeus. I full continuity from the ancient hellenes. :kooky

Too bad he became the sacraficial lamb

mplf1 · **Posted:** 09 Jan 2009 19:14

Quote:

You can find in Greek forums posters from your country who have reached 1500 or 1800 posts,but the opposite is not happening here and it's obvious why.You don't have Greek filotimo.

......And then we get banned and go away, but what we have noticed here is that "greeks" get banned, and come back with different user-name over and over again, I guess we don't have "greek" obsessiveness :??

Jeez, I just realized that the maggots just don't have a 30 page thread on Maknews, they have about 10 pages of threads on anti "greek" Macedonian propaganda, mainly based on Maknews members, that's not obsessive, that's fvcking SICK!!!!!!

Sorry for going off topic TM :blush

TrueMacedonian · **Joined:** 14 Apr 2005 01:32 **Posts:** 4846

mplf1 wrote:

Quote:

You can find in Greek forums posters from your country who have reached 1500 or 1800 posts,but the opposite is not happening here and it's obvious why.You don't have Greek filotimo.

......And then we get banned and go away, but what we have noticed here is that "greeks" get banned, and come back with different user-name over and over again, I guess we don't have "greek" obsessiveness :??

Jeez, I just realized that the maggots just don't have a 30 page thread on Maknews, they have about 10 pages of threads on anti "greek" Macedonian propaganda, mainly based on Maknews members, that's not obsessive, that's fvcking SICK!!!!!!

Sorry for going off topic TN :blush

It's ok mplf1 :toast

you basically told the maggots how it is.

TrueMacedonian · **Joined:** 14 Apr 2005 01:32 **Posts:** 4846

Makedoncheto · **Joined:** 02 Nov 2005 06:46 **Posts:** 930

TM, thank you for all your great work, I take my hat off, the Greeks are in complete denial.
Do you(Greeks) think we Macedonians have doctored all of these documents?? If so then you are very paranoid.

Makedoncheto · **Joined:** 02 Nov 2005 06:46 **Posts:** 930

Tsakarbakar wrote:

Do you believe that you are a pure-blooded race.You have also the same Vlach genes as the Greeks.Take a look here:

But wait a moment,the author is not refering to you.He speaks about Slavs and you are Macedonians,oh i forgot it!

I know that you have not read the book, because if you had you would have never brought it to our attention, read the first couple of pages and start crying...... it crushes your little Greek myth on several planes.......... it gives it to you good.....

TM, I have read this book before Christmas but havent got the time to post it yet, there are plenty of gems in it.....

link to the book, CLICK ME

Makedoncheto · **Joined:** 02 Nov 2005 06:46 **Posts:** 930

Quote:

In 1821 came the revolt in the south which ended in the
establishment of an independent Hellenic kingdom. The
revolt however was far from being coextensive with the
Greek race, and also was not exclusively Greek for the other
Christians in the south Albanians and Vlachs too helped
and became part of the newly liberated population. Thus
there is in Greece to-day a considerable number of Albanians
who have been from the first loyal Hellenic subjects.

Taken from pages 5-6 from the above mentioned book.

TrueMacedonian · **Joined:** 14 Apr 2005 01:32 **Posts:** 4846

Jordan Piperkata wrote:

Tsakarbakar wrote:

Do you believe that you are a pure-blooded race.You have also the same Vlach genes as the Greeks.Take a look here:

But wait a moment,the author is not refering to you.He speaks about Slavs and you are Macedonians,oh i forgot it!

I know that you have not read the book, because if you had you would have never brought it to our attention, read the first couple of pages and start crying...... it crushes your little Greek myth on several planes.......... it gives it to you good.....

TM, I have read this book before Christmas but havent got the time to post it yet, there are plenty of gems in it.....

link to the book, CLICK ME

Thanks Jordan, I think the modern "greek" should read the topic from page one again to see that Winnifrith has used Wace and Thompson as references :lol

Oh boy I love todays "greek". They put a smile on my face every day

I will go through the book Jordan.

maknews · **Posted:** 11 Jan 2009 06:14

TM, your contributions to the history section are superb.

TrueMacedonian · **Joined:** 14 Apr 2005 01:32 **Posts:** 4846

maknews wrote:

TM, your contributions to the history section are superb.

Thank you Maknews. You should see what I'm about to post on the Albanian culture of modern "greece" topic :smoke

TrueMacedonian · **Joined:** 14 Apr 2005 01:32 **Posts:** 4846

http://www.armanami.org/020401a.htm

PROTEST RESOLUTION BY 31 VLACH MAYORS AND COMMUNE PRESIDENTS AGAINST STATE DEPARTMENT REPORT
(original Greek text at: http://www.mpa.gr/article.html?doc__id=17444455)

Thessaloniki, 28 February 2001 (23:27 UTC+2)

The recently issued U.S. State Department report provoked a vehement reaction from 31 Vlachophone mayors and presidents of mountain communes in Greece. A resolution passed today by the mayors and community presidents cites the following:

Concerning the recent report by the American State Department on our country, we the undersigned Mayors and Commune Presidents, as elected representatives of the Local Government Organization, state that:

1st We protest the direct or indirect characterization of Vlachophone Greeks (Vlachs) as a national, linguistic or other minority.

2nd We declare that we ourselves, the Vlachophone Greeks, have never requested to be recognized by our country as a minority because we have always been a historically and politically integral part of the Hellenic nation.

3rd The existence and use of a second linguistic idiom, the consequence of a protracted Greco-Roman cultural tradition on mainland Greece, does not constitute a reason to characterize it as a minority language with the familiar political and other repercussions this entails.

4th We condemn any and all exploitation of a purely cultural element for political purposes or other motives, and its conversion into a factor to ethnically or otherwise differentiate the Vlachophone Greeks.

5th We express our displeasure and question forthwith the data upon which the authors of this report have based their findings, and challenge them to produce this documentation.

6th We categorically declare that we will act as a body to oppose whomever intentionally misinforms and misrepresents the historical and current facts concerning the collective national identity of Vlachophone Greeks.

This protest resolution has been forwarded to the United States State Department and communicated to the President of the Hellenic Republic, the Speaker of Parliament, the Prime Minister, the Leader of the Official Opposition, Political Party Leaders, and the Council of Europe, and is signed by the following Mayors and Commune Presidents.

1. Ioannis Hasiotis, Mayor of Veria, Imathia
2. Achilleas Evangelou, Mayor of Kleisoura, Kastoria
3. Athanasios (Nikos) Kapsalis, Mayor of Livadi, Larissa
4. Alexandros Kachrimanis, Mayor of Metsovo, Ioannina
5. Nikolaos Yioutikas, Mayor of Axios, Thessaloniki
6. Dimitrios Koulinas, Mayor of Polykastro, Kilki
7. Yeorgios Yitsos, Mayor of Evropos, Kilki
8. Yeorgios Makris, Mayor of Prosotsani, Drama
9. Nikolaos Zacharakis, Mayor of Kleinovos, Trikala
10. Christos *rude word*, Mayor of *rude word*, Trikala
11. Dimitris Basios, Mayor of Ano Pogoni, Ioannina
12. Sotiris Spyridakis, Mayor of Anatoliko Zagori, Ioannina
13. Ioannis Papapoulios, Mayor of Goryiani, Grevena
14. Ioannis Filos, Mayor of Kastania, Grevena
15. Alkiviadis Lantavos, Community President of Matsouki, Ioannina
16. Dimitrios Frangos, Community President of Pefka, Thessaloniki
17. Christos Nitsiakos, Community President of Aetomilitsa, Ioannina
18. Nikolaos Mertzos, Community President of Nymphaio, Florina
19. Stergios Raptis, Community President of Greater Aspropotamos, Trikala
20. Konstantinos Moutsioulis, Community President of Fourka, Ioannina
21. Achilleas Dokos, Community President of Avdella, Grevena
22. Efthimios Goulas, Community President of Distratos, Ioannina
23. Athanasios Stangoyiannis, Community President of Vovousa, Ioannina
24. Ioannis Kapetis, Community President of Milea, Ioannina
25. Nikolaos Gatzoyias, Community President of Kalarita, Ioannina
26. Ioannis Argyris, Community President of Syrakos, Ioannina
27. Yeorgios Platsoukas, Community President of Vathypedo, Ioannina
28. Konstantinos Tzimas, Community President of Samarina, Grevena
29. Apostolos Zioboras, Community President of Perivoli, Grevena
30. Panayotis Tsakalis, Community President of Grammos, Kastoria
31. Fotis Kilipiris, Community President of Livadi, Kilki

_______________________________________

Panayote Elias Dimitras
Spokesperson
Greek Helsinki Monitor
e-mail: panayote@greekhelsinki.gr

Internet Addresses:
Balkan Human Rights Web Pages: http://www.greekhelsinki.gr
The Balkan Human Rights List: http://www.egroups.com/group/balkanhr
The Greek Human Rights List: http://www.egroups.com/group/greekhr
Dikaiomatika! [monthly human rights review in Greek]: http://www.egroups.com/group/dikaiomatika
Alternative Information Network (AIM) - Athens [articles in Greek]: http://www.egroups.com/group/aimgreek

Mail Address:
P.O. Box 60820
GR-15304 Glyka Nera, Greece

Telephone and Fax:
Tel. +30-1-347.22.59;
Fax +30-1-601.87.60

TrueMacedonian · **Joined:** 14 Apr 2005 01:32 **Posts:** 4846

The idea of "Hellenism" unites most Aromanians in Greece much more than their "Vlachness" so that the following comment by the mayor of a large Vlach village probably represents the opinion of most Greek Aromanians: "How is it possible that someone calls us minority? We made the Greek state!"[37]

http://www.farsarotul.org/nl27_1.htm

Aromanians are to be found among the independence fighters, Rhigas Feraios[33] (1757-1798, forerunner of the Greek independence movement), Georgakis Olympios (1772-1821, member of "Filiki Etaireia", fought in the revolution of 1821), Theodoros and Alexis Grivas (1797-1862 and 1799-1855 respectively, leaders of armed bands of revolutionaries); they were some of the best known maecenas, Baron Georgios Sinas (1783-1856, hereditary baron and senior officer of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, founder of the Academy of Athens), Simon Sinas (1810-1876, banker, railway magnate, baron of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, first Greek ambassador in Vienna), Nikolaos Stournaris (1806-1853, founder of the Metsovio Polytechnic School in Athens), Georgios Stavrou (1785-1869, co-founder and first governor of the National Bank of Greece); and were also among the important politicians Ioannis Kolettis (1773-1847, Minister and later Prime Minister 1844-47), Stergios Doumbas (1794-1870, banker in Vienna), Konstantinos Zappas (1814-1892, endowed the Zappeion Hall and the surrounding gardens), Georgios Averof (1818-1899, founder of the Military Academy, restorer of the Panathenian Stadium), Nikolaos Doumbas 1830-1900 (banker), Spyridon Lambros (1851-1919, historian and politician), Athinagoras I. (1886-1972, Patriarch from 1948 to 1972), Evangelos Averof Tositsas (1910-1990, Minister of Foreign Affairs 1958-1963, Minister of National Defence 1974-1981).

TrueMacedonian · **Joined:** 14 Apr 2005 01:32 **Posts:** 4846

In Greece, the national identity of most Aromanians takes place without a doubt through modern Hellenism. From the perspective of the Greek Aromanians all monolingual populations which only speak Greek belong to the Greeks (Greţ), while the Vlach-, Slav- and Albanian-speaking people can also belong to the Hellenes (Elini, in Greek Ellines). Thus, the two terms Greek and Hellenic cause problems. While almost every Aromanian considers himself to be Hellene (Ellinas, fem. Ellinida, pl. Ellines) when speaking Greek, he would not consider himself Greek (Grecu, fem. Greacā, pl. Greţ) when speaking Aromanian. To demonstrate this fact, let me quote Maria K. from Kleisoura. "Of course I am proud to be Vlach, but I am much prouder to be Hellene"[35] were her first comments when speaking about the Vlachs in Greece. Only a few minutes later, when we switched over to Aromanian, she told me about her daughter "You can´t imagine my shock when our daughter wanted to marry a Greek! Who wants to marry their own children to the Greeks?".[36] To be a Hellene does not mean automatically to be Greek. Further problems are provoked if a language is used that does not differentiate between Greek and Hellene. Obviously, most Aromanians in Greece will more willingly call themselves Greek when speaking English than Grecu when speaking Aromanian.

Things are quite different in the case of pro-Romanian Aromanians and those who consider themselves to be a separate people. They do not only identify themselves as Vlachs by culture and language, their Aromanian identity does not allow the parallel existence of another national identity. These tendencies can still be found in Greece, especially in those villages in which strong Romanian communities were accepted by the Greek authorities, above all in Avdella, Perivoli, Samarina, Vovousa, Krania, Edessa, Veroia and the surrounding areas, as well as in a few settlements in the districts of Kastoria and Ioannina. On the whole they represent a minute and dwindling number of Aromanians.

TrueMacedonian · **Joined:** 14 Apr 2005 01:32 **Posts:** 4846

In other regions, Vlacha, Vlachos or Vlachikos is the name of a dance,[3] so on many Aegean islands (esp. Naxos, Samos, Rhodes, Carpathos) and in Cyprus.[4]

http://www.farsarotul.org/nl27_1.htm

[4] The immense diversity in defining the word "Vlach" can be seen in the following excerpts from my interviews:
"Everybody who has animals is a Vlach."
"Vlachs are the persons we go to at Easter to bye some lamb."
"There are no Vlachs anymore. They have gone."
"My parents were Vlachs."
"They are Romanians. But we have Vlachs here too."
"A Vlach is a bad major."
"They are the purest Greeks, the proudest race!"
"We do not have any Vlachs here. We are pure Greeks."

TrueMacedonian · **Joined:** 14 Apr 2005 01:32 **Posts:** 4846

Vlachs in modern "greek" society

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