I suddenly came across this forum :

OMG , these guys are so obsessed with our existence ...
And again the same old post stamp of Yugoslavia from the 50's.

OK, where on that map these blind bastards see Serbia, Montenegro, Bosnia , etc etc ?
Does it also mean that Serbs never existed as nation , according to that map and every other nation in YU ?

Gimme a break !

No, it just means that the region in which your country is in was never part of ancient Macedonia, nor was it ever called Macedonia until 1944 when Tito renamed it from Vardaska Banovina. In ancient times it was called Paeonia (home of the Paeonians) and then Dardania. There are historical fact gentlemen, not matter of opinion.

O really?

If i prove you otherwise, will you please stop bothering us with your bullshit. You may also pack your bags, and leave Thessaloniki for your prosfyga homeland in Turkey

So, can i ?

O really? If i prove you otherwise, will you please stop bothering us with your bullshit. You may also pack your bags, and leave Thessaloniki for your prosfyga homeland in Turkey.

Sure, go ahead and prove that it was not called Paeonia, Dardania, and later Vardaska Banovina. I'm not from Ionia and neither is my family. Do not assume to know me; you don't.

Macedonia : 1912, German map :



Macedonia : 1800's , French map :



Roman period : Macedonia , Achaia , Epirus :



Roman Empire :



TITO WILL CRY !!!!!! AAAAHAHAHAHHA

Even on the maps showing the Roman Empire Macedonia and Hellas are shown as different color !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morava_Banovina

What about Morava Banovina? Or the other Banovina's for that matter? Your arguements are lame. The land mass of modern greece never had any real borders until the english and french philhellenes created them for you. Facts are facts. Your modern country is a mythical reality thanks to people like Byron, Shelley, Hugo, etc...

You're in for a very rude awakening if you believe what you posted above.

Did he just play the Vardarska Banovina card?

The PanMacedonian foolishness. It was Vardarska Banovina for a few years and the Turkish Christians and Ponti don't know any better because they are not from Macedonia, so they keep the broken record playing. This is one thing that distinguishes a prosfyga from a g'rkoman. The g'rkomani know the history of the land but fake their Greekness, whereas the prosfyges are out to lunch, you can tell them anything and they'll believe it.

I think he did .

It's worth mentioning here that Macedonia was included in the Yugoslav Communist Manifesto of 1928.

Furthermore, the present Macedonian Republic was in the territory of Ottoman Macedonia, and is mentioned as Macedonia in several treaties, charters...etc. In 1908 pressure from the West pursuaded the Turks to grant Macedonia! regional autonomy.

Now, there has never been, historically speaking a Greek Nationality that was also Macedonian. There has never been in historical terms, a group of people who collectively identified themselves as being Greek 'and' Macedonian. If there is, point me to the empirical evidence.

Macedonians were never Greeks.



Some ancient Macedonian generals came from Paionia (over the border). How do you account for that? Heraklea Lynkestis was a part of ancient Macedonia.

The two oldest tombs found on Mt Olympus, at least according to N.G.L Hammond, are Thracian, which are dated at 900 BC and 1,100 BC.

It's also probably worth mentioning the 1913 Treaty of Bucharest here. The treaty itself mentions Macedonia and as part of the region it refers to under the name of Macedonia, it also includes what is the territory of the Republic of Macedonia today.

To prove you wrong and to further reiterate that the territory of the Republic of Macedonia is part of Macedonia and has been referred to as such, I will refer you to the website of Greek Ministry of Foreign Affairs

Link:
http://www.mfa.gr/NR/rdonlyres/672ADA69 ... treaty.doc


Excerpt:
"TO THE RELATIVELY brief text of this treaty were appended three protocols concerning the frontiers of Bulgaria, which had been defeated in the Second Balkan War. The third of these protocols referred to Greece, which at the end of the War had acquired Crete1 and Kavala. The northern frontier of Greece was defined as extending from the north of Korytsa, between Monastir and Florina, to Doiran, then south of Strumitsa, Petrich and Nevrokopi, to the mouth of the Nestos (Mesta).
The Peace Treaty of Bucharest was the outcome of the conference convened after the conclusion of the Second Balkan War, on the initiative of King Carol of Roumania.2 Bulgaria lost the greater part of Macedonia, whose territory was divided between Greece and Serbia. During the conference, the Bulgarian delegates at times adopted an attitude that was seen as provocative by the other participants, given that Bulgaria had been the aggressor and was, moreover, the defeated side. There were also times, however, when they were strikingly conciliatory. This was because Bulgaria hoped that the Great Powers would revise the treaty, a hope encouraged by both Austria and Russia. France and Germany were opposed to such a revision, while Italy and Britain were prepared to accept it only if it was unanimously agreed upon. The European Powers were wary of the possibility of further unrest in the Balkans.
The delegations were headed at the conference by their respective Prime Ministers; Greece was represented by Eleftherios Venizelos, Serbia by N. Pachic, Roumania by T. Maioresco and Montenegro by S. Voukotic, whilst defeated Bulgaria was represented by Finance Minister D. Tontchev.
Through the Treaty of Bucharest, the territory of Greece doubled in size3 and its population increased by some two million, reaching 4,718,221 inhabitants.4 Although this expansion could have been considerably greater, it was significant as it included sources of wealth, providing the conditions for industrialisation and economic development. It also improved Greece’s international standing. With its special position in the network of Balkan relations and in the balance of political and military power in Europe, the modern Greek state acquired an unprecedented role."



You see that 'greater part of Macedonia that was divided between Greece and Serbia'? Well the bit that went to Serbia is today the independent Republic of Macedonia.

Yes, that's right, the Treaty of Bucharest, and your own Foreign Ministry, refer to the territory of the Republic of Macedonia, as Macedonia.

Dont they always?

I came across this quote today, which I remember reading a long time ago....

The masses are far more likely to believe a big lie than several small ones."
- Adolf Hitler


I wonder if the Greeks look up to Adolf Hitler. I mean, they clearly followed this quote to the letter.
Many greeks do admire Hitler after he stroked their ego and said that of all his opponents only the Greeks "fought with endless courage and defiance of death".

The claim that the territory of the Republic of Macedonia was not part of the historical territory of Macedonia - is patently false.

The Former Ottoman Province of Greece (FOPOG) and Bulgaristan keep on repeating this falsehood as part of their propaganda against Macedonia/ns. The reason is well known: both are arteficial creations of the 19th century, both have acquired Macedonian territory by force, and both want to claim Macedonia's glory a part of their identity. Thus their hysteria.

Here is one (of many) counterarguments: the fourth capital of Ancient Macedonia -- Pelagonia -- was found on the territory of the Republic of Macedonia in Bonche. The archeological find dates to 4th century BC and it yielded a royal Macedonian gravesite. Only in another ancient Macedonian capital -- in Pella (currently under FOPOG rule) -- there is also a royal Macedonian gravesite found.



http://a1.com.mk/vesti/default.aspx?VestID=97982

Not only Bonche, but that entire Mariovo region is a very rich archeological locality. While the Macedonain public was busy with the digs in the Skopje Kale (Fortress), the well-organized Greek archeological mafia went into high gear to steal or destroy what it can from Mariovo. From reports I have heard, what we call "illegal digers" used buldozers to pillage and steal.

It is estimated that nearly 10% of Macedonia's archeological treasures have been stolen in the past 20 years since the FOPOG anti-Macedonian campaign publicly started. Besides the Greek state institutions, a very active role in the theft plays a Univeristy in Solun (Salonica).

In addition to Bulgaria's political leaders who are also former KBG aparatchiks but are now on Greek payroll (like Bozhidar Dimitrov, Krasimir Karakachanov, etc.), Serbia's mafia is in the game as well.

Milka these modern "greeks" and Bulgars are the real brainwashed idiots if they believe that they have some type of legitimacy over Macedonia and the Macedonians in any era. Todays "greek" was yesterdays Albanian, Vlach, Macedonian, Turk, Armenian etc. They have enough skeletons in their closet and they should worry about their own ethnicity (plasticity) before questioning our identity. Todays Bulgar needs to realize that Old Church Slavonic = Macedonian language which these muts learned from our ancestors when they came to the balkans a century and a half later. Omurtag became Boris the next day and these morons are going to tell us that we're Bulgars The suicide bombings in here as of late I believe are from the modern "greeks" with maybe a Bulgar stooge or two. They must be getting upset that their identities are consistently being challenged on here on a daily basis. Keep suicide bombing ladies. It makes me wanna double the posts daily on your ArvanitoSlavoVlach ethnicity.

Be as it may, the presence of an ancient Macedonian capital on the territory of the Republic of Macedonia -- called Pelagonia -- disproves the claim, however idiotic it may be, that the Republic allegedly is outside the ancient territory of Macedonia.

Also, a correction: the Bulgarian khan Goboris became Michael (renamed after the Roman Emperor) when he accepted Christianity, while khan Omurtag remained Omurtag.

I know that Omurtag remained Omurtag just saying how a Turkic tribe came into the Balkans with asiatic names and were then Slavicized.

Its reading trash like this shit on Greek or Serb forums that makes me praise Franks recent statements about Greece.

Don't forget Bulgar forums too!



What statements are those?

If it is "death to Greece", I disagree that we should state it publicly. That way, we loose the moral high ground. From my experience, it is far smarter and much more productive to work FOR Macedonia rather than stating that we are AGAINST Greece. But where necessary, we should curse the Hell against Greece.

Working and stating things that are pro-Macedonia -- such as promoting our Macedonian history and culture, our rights, language, etc. -- undermines Greece's fascist stance. Two birdes with one stone.