Because we can't keep this up forever and water it down like past polls. We're making this yearly. And next year we will start on New Years day with the voting and the polls will close on the last day of January. However there will be some semi-polls to determine who gets in and who gets out for the 'Greatest Macedonian of All Time' from different periods of Macedonian history.

Great idea.

Actually we should thank you for starting this new yearly poll Hopefully you start it up again for us January 1st 2010.

I'm just the idea. You can start it up seeing your the mod.

If you understand what Delcev saw as his true cause, you would not be so quick to suggest that he failed. The moral revolution that he was instrumental in establishing is still ongoing, even if it is not as obvious as a military conquest. If it wasn't, you and I would probably not be discussing great Macedonians at all today. I will once again suggest reading, learning and thinking more about Delcev's substantive legacy, instead of relying on piecemeal knowledge or superficial perceptions, before making rash judgments and comments that only serve do devalue the long-standing Macedonian struggle for justice and freedom.

By your definition of greateness, Hitler and Stalin are among the greatest leaders ever. George Bush, or at least Reagan and Roosevelt, may also be considered to be greater than Alexander or even Jesus Christ.

To me, achieving extraordinary conquests or fame at the head of an empire is not enough to make a person great in a positive sense. The ethical, intellectual or artistic value of any action, and the courage and will to struggle against great odds in pursuit of ethically valuable goals are more fundamental criteria. I am sure that Delcev thought the same, otherwise he may have worked towards obtaining a high ranking position in the Ottoman Empire (perhaps as a Janichar) or in the Bulgarian state, rather than choosing to start a moral revolution almost from scratch, against huge odds.

Btw, if you look at how long Alexander's empire lasted and the nature in which it fell apart, you could just as easily say that he ultimately failed in his own quest. Also, it is a pretty well known fact that Delcev was against the Ilinden Uprising i.e. he thought it was a very premature and probably disastrous course of action.

Tomorrow night we will be tallying the votes and making it official so those of you who have not yet voted get your ass to the polls. And please vote NObama

alexandrov why do you assume so much about my knowledge or lack of modern macedonian history.

where is delchevs moral revolution, and how many people have been touched by it.

comparing hitler and stalin with alexandar and taking anyone outside of their historical context and applying your societies moral values to their actions is wrong.

alexandars impact on history was not just the establishment of his empire and its subsequent collapse after his death. there were far reaching intellectual cultural and economic and dare i say it moral consequences of alexandars actions.

you were happy to suggest aristotle the hellenic racist as a great macedonian, and not alexandar who demonstrated respect and tolerance for all his subject cultures.

the macedonians peoples struggle for their identity is not something i am belittling, i am merely pointing out the failings of vmro, and i accept its only with hindsight i can make such claims, but my defintion of greatness is not merely based on intent and the upholding of modern values but on the impact of ones actions on history.

Osiris,

I am not assuming anything about your knowledge, nor do I need to for the present purpose. Your assertions about Delcev's failure are in themselves indicative of lack of knowledge or understanding of how he defined his own cause and of his position on the Ilinden Uprising. If you make a comparison between the demonstrated desire for freedom, justice and sovereignty, and a collective will among Macedonians to struggle for it (even among a minority, which is the case among all nations), when Delcev started his work, and how it has grown since then as a result of the struggle he was instrumental in defining, you would not be asking the erroneously presumptive questions you are asking. I am sorry if that offends you, but that's the way I see it. If we are going to start taking offense, I could just as easily take personal offense to your comments about Delcev and his fellow fighters, but that won't get us anywhere.

Once again, I do not put fame or quantity over quality when it comes to judging who is a great person. You don't have to accept my criteria. I am simply explaining why I do not accept yours.

The comparisons I made between various emperors are based on the criteria that you've applied in your previous posts - not on my criteria.

Speaking of taking things outside of their historical context and applying your society's moral values to their actions:



Where is the evidence that Hellenism was a 'race' in ancient times? And how was 'Aristotle' any more of a 'racist' than Alexander? Please quote anything from Aristotle to support the assertion that he was a "Hellenic RACIST".

And what is your definition of 'respect and tolerance for all his subject cultures"? Something like the "respect and tolerance" you might have for different breeds of pets that you might 'subject'?

Your comments about me taking things out of their historic context are clearly misplaced. In my previous posts, I have made it known that my ratings about how great any historical Macedonian figures are partly based on how relevant their legacy is to contemporary society, and particularly to the ongoing Macedonian struggle for freedom and justice. Since this poll has been started without a predetermined criteria for greatness, I have obviously adopted my own criteria, as have you. By your criteria, Alexander is no doubt greater than Delcev. And by mine, it's the other way around. Alexander was no doubt a great conqueror and ruler, especially judging by the standards of his time. Delcev, on the other hand, encouraged moral and intellectual freedom, including rebellion against all RULERS, and embarked on that course against great odds, without having inherited a formidable military force or kingdom; without the benefit of an education and military training ensured by somebody of the calibre of King Philip II (a greater Macedonian than Alexander, IMO), and without a tutor like Aristotle, who is perhaps the greatest scientist and philosophers of the ancient world and one of the greatest of all time. Delcev would be a great human being by the standards of any civilized era that I can think of. His ideas, ethical values, leadership qualities and demonstrated strength of character could be extraordinarily useful in any modern society's struggle against injustice and oppression. And it is highly likely that were it not for the foundations set by him and a few others like him, Macedonian nationhood and sovereignty would not exist as a plausible concept today.



What exactly were those consequences? How do you trace them to Alexander as the source? Are you sure you are not confusing them with Aristotle's foundational contributions?



If you are going to assess consequences independently of intent, you might say that Hitler is the greatest modern leader, given that the establishment of the United Nations, the United Nations Charter and the Universal Declaration on Human Rights, and the overall "New World Order", was almost a direct consequence of his work.

Some late support for Gyorgi Delcev.

This poll is ridiculous !!

Everyone of these people are great Macedonians. I cannot put one ahead of any other because of different times, different causes.

Phillip and Alexander put Macedonia on the map forever.
Kiril and Metodi allowed our people to write down our spoken word
VMRO fighters - there legacy is what inspires us today.

So i vote for all of them.

Only a few hours left and the polls will be closing

And the polls are in.

The Greatest Macedonian Of All Time for the year 2009 is ............... Aleksander The Great


In second place Goce Delcev

Tied for third Misirkov and Filip II


Thank you all for voting. See you at the polls January 2010

It's very hard to choose the Greatest Macedonians of all time.
I'd say it's Goce Delcev.
My personal view - Goce Delcev fought to liberate the Macedonians.

Welcome makgerman