welcome back munara, spread em! The Star Vagina is back for more ...

Highschool was a trip. Wish I could do it again. I had alot of "greek" friends at that time believe it or not.

You see you never had this happen before. You never had a Macedonian like me push your buttons and show you the falseness you and your countryfolk are. This is getting under your skin because you believe that yaya and papa would never lie to you about your "greekness". But I'm telling you,,,hell I've showed you, that they lied to you. Your heroes were thieves and non-"greeks". Your politicians spoke Albanian and Vlach at home. You've borrowed from other cultures and then claim them as "greek". You ....whatever your ethnicity really is.....are nothing more than a product of a false environment.
You attack me and others of my kind by saying the following;


Have I ever made a claim that I was a historian? Nope. Never. I simple picked up a book and read it and scanned it and showed it on here. Something I have seen on many of your racist modern "greek" websites about Macedonia and Macedonians. Well two can play that game Vagina. I think Macedonians have been passed the point of sick and tired of modern "greeks" BS. The questions of what a Macedonian is is done. There is no more Macedonian question. Now I offer the question to you and your kind. The Greek Question?.

http://books.google.com/books?id=UJJhbU ... +the+vlach

Andonis Kiriazis a Vlach who hellenized his name to Rigas Velenstinlis.

you know someones arguments are weak when they ignore the text and concentrate on the poster. keep it up tm you have many fans out there these days, people who dont post but read maknews love what you have been doing.

modern greece is a mishmash of balkan and middle eastern ethnicities and cultures living the hellenic dream as defined by the 19th century phillhellenic often racist western european intellectuals.

Thanks Osiris. I notice whenever I do post something new Terra and some other modern "greeks" will say "but we know we're not racially pure and that we are mixed". Very well then. This is not for you though. This is for everyone else out there so they could see the true nature of modern "greece".

No I never said that. However are you now going to tell me that modern "greece" has a patent on names ending in "is" and "ou" as well???

They were brought into prominance by Iosipos Moisiodax (ca1725-1800), who occupied a towering position in the intellectual developments of the era. Although born a Vlach in a part of Northern Bulgaria populated by his Romanian speaking people, he entered the Greek world of letters by virtue of his Greek education. Greek culture, Kitromilidis explains in his biography of Moisiodax, constituted a "common patrimony" to all other balkan orthodox christians of the eighteenth century. The only means by which the orthodox christians of the region could improve themselves socially. Greek education "acted as a catalyst in assimilating into Greek culture members of the Orthodox but non-greek speaking groups of Balkan society, whose symbolic boundaries remained quite fluid in the period before the emergence of nationalism". Along with Moisiodax, Rigas Velenstinlis (he too a Vlach), Nikolaos Zervoulis, Dimitrios Darvaris, Nikolaos Piccolos (a Bulgarian), and Athanasios Vogoridis had all assimilated into Hellenism at the time.

The Neccessary Nation, by Gregory Jusdanis pg.121
http://books.google.com/books?id=OmAnT1 ... anis+vlach

As I've said before there were many ways to make a modern "greek". One was through the church,,,evident in this topic. The other was through school. Hence how modern "greeks" opened up schools in Macedonia to Hellenize Vlachs, Albanians, Macedonians, Serbians, and Bulgarians. All of the above are your "greek" intelligentsia". Ethnically all non-'greek'. I found it funny that Kitromilidis would use the term 'hellenism' something never heard of until the 19th century when a German created it. I know I know Terra go ahead and tell me for the 100th time how it's the "culture" that is how you are related to ancient Hellas and I'll tell you to save it. I've heard it before. The above are enlightenment figures influenced by french jacobinists and the french revolution.

Douglas Dakin also states that he hellenized his name from Antonios Kiriazis to Rigas Velenstinlis. As we all know this is an author even your Pan-Macedonian "supreme president" says is a "very serious author" in her statement against Macedonia supposedly denying the existence of a "greek minority" . So are we going to assume Rigas was now a true "hellene" because we ASSUME we have a copyright on names ending in "is" and "ou"?

I don't like to use wikipedia. But this is interesting enough to post. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Aromanians


Benefactors
-George Averoff (1818-1899): Vlach from Metsovo, Epirus, Greece, grand donator of Panathinaiko Stadium, Battleship "Averoff", The Grand School of Alexandria, The Greek Cadet School e.a.
-Apostolos Arsakis (1792-1874): Vlach from Hotahova, Epirus, Greece, founder of the Arsakeion School and building, nowadays accommodating the Greek Council of State
-George Stavrou (1795-1869): Vlach from Ioannina, Epirus, Greece, Founder of the National Bank of Greece
-Stergios Doumbas (Dumba) and Nikolaos Doumbas (1830-1900): Father and son, Vlachs from Vlasti, near Kozani, Macedonia,. Stergios Doumbas was the co-founder and donator of the National Library, one of the three masterpieces of contemporary architecture that make up the Athenian Trilogy. Nikolaos Doumbas was great benefactor of the cities of Vienna and Athens, sponsor of all the great composers of his times who lived in Vienna (Franz Peter Schubert, Johann Strauss e.a.) and the donator of the infamous concert hall of Vienna, Musikverein. The Dumba Marsch was composed at his honor.
-Evangelos Zappas (1800-1865): Vlach from Lampovo, North Epirus. He fought against the Ottoman Empire in 1821, in numerous sites around Greece. After the liberation of Greece, he expanded his business to Egypt and Romania, where he made an enormous fortune. All his fortune was bequeathed to the Greek State, but was confiscated by Romania.
-Constantinos Zappas or Konstantine Zappas (1813-1895): Cousin and executor of the will of Evangelos Zappas, successful businessman himself. As his cousin's will executor, he built Zappeion Megaron in Athens and many schools. Himself, was the inspirer and the great donator of the first Contemporary Olympic Games of 1896, which he did not survive to attend.
-Demetrius Postolakas: Vlach from Metsovo, Epirus, Greece. Founder and donator of the National Library, one of the three masterpieces of contemporary architecture that make up the Athenian Trilogy (the Athens Academy, the National and Kapodistrian University and the National Library), works of Theophil Freiherr von Hansen, Christian Hansen and Ernst Ziller
-George Sinas (1783-1856): Vlach from Moscopole, lived in Vienna, Budapest and Alexandria in Egypt. Businessman and former Greek Consul in Vienna. Benefactor of Greece, Austria-Hungary and donator of prominent buildings in Athens, masterpieces of architecture.
-Simon Sinas (1810-1876): Son of George Sinas, lived in Budapest . Donator and founder of the Academy of Budapest, the Athens Orthodox Cathedral, the Athens Academy e.a.
-Nikoaos Stournaras (1806-1853): Vlach from Metsovo, Epirus, Greece. Donator and co-founder of National Technical University Athens "Metsovio"
-The Tositsas family: Vlach family from Metsovo, Epirus, Greece. Donators and co-fouders of the National Technical University of Athens "Metsovio", also donators of numerous schools (107 schools only in Epirus) and beneficial institutions.

Clergy
-Patriarch Joachim III of Constantinople
-Ecumenical Patriarch Athenagoras I of Constantinople

Politicians
-Ioannis Vlachos, known as Daskalogiannis (Δασκαλογιάννης) (?-June 17, 1771) was a Cretan rebel against Ottoman rule in the 18th century. Considered the national Hero of Crete Island.
-Evangelos Averoff, former Greek minister and former leader of the New Democracy party;
-Alexander Papagos, the Greek General who led the Greek Army during World War II, former Prime Minister
-Michael Dukakis, American Governor of Massachusetts and former presidential candidate (Greek Aromanian mother)[1]
-Ioannis Kolettis Greek Prime Minister, declared Greek Independence from the Ottoman Empire-;
-Traianos Nallis(Nale)orTrayan Nali Efendi,politician, member of the Ottoman ParliamentSecond Constitutional Era (Ottoman Empire)1908]].*[1] (Just stressing how Vlachs used "is" and how it is not a modern "greek" copyright.)
-George Padioti[2], famous Vlach minority rights activist in Greece;
-Rigas Velestinlis-Fereos, Greek poet and revolutionaire;
-Christos Folias, Greek businessman, former New Democracy MEP and current vice-minister of Econony.
-Alchiviad Diamandi di Samarina, fascist politician born in Samarina, Consul of the Kingdom of Romania in Korçë, Albania between the two world wars and later leader of the autonomous Vlach statelet Principality of Pindus.
-Apostol Margarit, leader of the pro-Romanian faction of the Vlachs of Greece, inspector of the Romanian schools and member of the Romanian Academy in Bucharest
[3].

I see the book " The Invention of the "Greek Nation"" is already finished. All those maps and scanned pages compiled in one book will be terrific.

Especially the chapter " The great migration of the Pontites, Karamanlites ,Smyrnites etc. tribes and their settlements in Macedonia in the early 20th century" will be great.

Than comes the Vlach ancestry...then Albanian..ancestry and so on.

An endaveor that needs our Florin Curta.

Really perfect.

Nothing...just a nice book in the library

Yannis this book would have to be BOOKS in order to give the reader a clear cut accurate read on what brewed and what is brewing in modern "greece".

You are right TM. Just keep posting the PERFECT TRUTH.

pg 41

T.M where do you find this stuff.
I really enjoy reading it.

I recently read Vasil Bogov's book, Macedonian Revelation. A real eye opener. I think you would like it. He has an interesting way of presenting the facts, but in amongst it all there was a number of brilliant finds. He draws on a number of comtempories.

Giorgis, you contradict yourself many times here. First you try and connect yourself to the ancients by saying what you can read text from 800 or 1200 BC.

Then you admit no greek claims purity. Well aren't you a greek that has just cliamed purity?? This is actually no laughing matter, I think you [greeks] are quite a confused race of people.

Consider this from Angeliki:

"......Thus, as the Balkan states emerged out of their wars of independence, one strain in their self-identification and in their relationship to each other was marked by historical memories and claims which were built in antithetical ways, on a substratum of diverse ethnicities.
Does all this mean that conflicting historical claims and memories cannot be unraveled? I think it does not.
And I think it is very important here to differentiate among the remnants of these processes in the intervening seventy years, that is, after 1922. During this time, especially through the 1920's, a number of things happened, which influence affairs today and change historical memory. There was, of course, the resolution of the wars, which ultimately brought to an end the Ottoman Empire, and distributed its remaining territories among the various successor states.........Angeliki E. Laiou a Professor of Byzantine Studies at Harvard University "

It seems your own greek collegues seems to suggest you greeks have a lot to answer to than your petty little admitions of ethnic impurity.

I will get Bogov's book. Right now I am reading like 4 books at once and when I have laid them down I will definitely read Bogov.

Stojacan I realized that after debating with the modern "greek" it becomes uterly futile. They are drones programmed since birth to believe that they are the true descendants of Pericles, Agamemnon, Leonidas and the likes of non-hellenes like Achilles and Alexander. History distortion is rampant in modern "greek" society and it is helped by the same racist ideology that created modern "greece" and the new species the modern "greeks". False terms like "hellenism" and to an extent "hellenistic" are degrading true history for what it is worth and known.

I posted this earlier, but it might go here as well, i think it belongs here.

Just look how many Greeks where actual vlaches.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgd8ttjwKkE

Good stuff Voya. Today when one looks at a modern "greek" and has read of their mixed origins one must be puzzled if the modern "greek" he or she is looking at is actually an Albanian, Vlach, Macedonian, Turk, Armenian, Serbian, Bulgarian, Jew etc.