The Macedonian Digest
“From the readers for the readers”
Edition 17 – May 2007
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Editor’s Notes
For some time now I have been receiving e-mails from various Greeks complaining that I have been making claims that “modern Macedonians are direct descendants of the Ancient Macedonians” and at the same time have been saying that “modern Greeks are NOT direct descendants of the so called Ancient Greeks”.
I invite anyone to show me where, in what article did I say “modern Macedonians are direct descendents of the Ancient Macedonians?” I have always been a supporter of the idea that “the modern Macedonians are a product of the ancient Macedonians AS WELL AS every tribe and people that invaded, settled and walked on Macedonian soil”.
As for our modern Greeks neighbours being “direct descendants” of the so called “Ancient Greeks” I would say “proof is required”. Until you prove your direct descent your claims will be questioned. Just saying so without proof is nothing more than “wishful thinking”.
"Out of many different tribes and people, Phillip II formed one nation" – Justinus (posted by Soldier of Macedon).
Risto Stefov
Feature Stories
US: Prospects in Greece-Macedonia name dispute not bright
Athens, 13:41
The name dispute between Athens and Skopje does
not have a very bright prospect, Assistant Secretary of State for European and
Eurasian Affairs, Kurt Walker, said in an interview with Greek paper To Vima.
Calling for reaching a "mutually acceptable
solution", Walker underlined that the perspectives are not "flattering" for
the Greek diplomacy either.
"The Greek state cannot allow to lose the
entire forest for one tree", Walker warned, pointing out that the name issue "should
not pose as an obstacle to the overall efforts in the region for integration
of the institutions and democracy development aimed at membership in Euro-Atlantic
structures".
Skopje and Ljubljana become fraternized cities
Ljubljana /23/03/ 18:31
The Mayors of Skopje and Ljubljana, Trifun Kostovski
and Zoran Jankovic, signed today an Agreement on Fraternizing of the Macedonian
and Slovenian capitals.
The Agreement was signed during Kostovski's visit
to Ljubljana, ONASA Agency reported.
The document contains provisions on cooperation
between the two cities in various field spanning culture, art, administration
and economy.
"The capital cities are never rivals",
Ljubljana's Mayor said after the signing ceremony.
Jankovic invited Kostovski to take part at the
meeting of Mayors of capitals of the EU member-countries and EU candidate-countries
due to take place in Ljubljana.
The aim of the meeting - slated for early 2008,
when Slovenia is due to take-over EU Presidency - is exchange of experiences
among the old, new and future members of EU.
13 March 2007 | 18:33 | FOCUS News Agency
Skopje.
On the eve of reaching a solution on Kosovo,
the Gorans (a people living in the region of Gora in Kosovo) demanded from
the Kosovo government and the UN to be recognized as a Macedonian ethnic
community with a cultural autonomy, official use of Macedonian language,
education in Macedonian language, as well as at least three parliamentary
seats guaranteed by the Constitution of Kosovo, the Macedonian television
A1 reported. The Gorans will accept Kosovo’s status, but they unconditionally
demand separate provinces Gora and Recani, a 24-hour international monitoring
of the border checkpoint Strezimir-Restelica, the right to enter Macedonia
with an identity card and the right to a double citizenship – Macedonian
and Kosovo citizenship.
http://www.focus-fen.net/index.php?id=n107839
UMD Sends Letter to U.S. Speaker of the House
Friday, 23 March 2007
The United Macedonian Diaspora sent a letter on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 to the Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives, Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi, in light of her meeting with the Greek Minister of Foreign Affairs, Ms. Dora Bakoyannis, whose government blatantly denies the existence of a Macedonian national minority within Greece's borders.
--------------------------------------------------
March 21, 2007
The Honorable Nancy Pelosi
Speaker of the House
235 Cannon HOB
Washington, DC 20515
Dear Congresswoman Pelosi:
First, allow me to congratulate you on becoming
the first woman in U.S. history as Speaker of the House. I value your
leadership.
I understand that you will have the opportunity
to meet with the Greek Foreign Minister, Ms. Dora Bakoyannis tomorrow. According
to the news in Athens, her meetings with U.S. policy makers will focus, among
other things, on the ongoing and absurd name dispute over my ancestral homeland,
the Republic of Macedonia. I would like to bring to your attention
some concerns regarding Greece’s treatment of minorities and its relations
with its neighboring country of Macedonia.
In 1992, the Greek government, in a fit of xenophobia
and fear demanded that newly independent Macedonia find an alternative name and
national symbols, as Macedonia can “only” belong to Greece. Macedonia
originally refused, resulting in a devastating economic embargo that only ended
in 1995 when Macedonian authorities, under clear duress, were forced into signing
an unfair and imbalanced Interim Accord with Athens. This agreement
is unique, as it is the first instance in history where one state is actively
denying another state’s sovereign right to name itself, in direct defiance
of the UN Charter and its guarantees of national self-determination. Ironically,
Athens demands that negotiations on Macedonia’s name continue under the
same UN auspices, which it violated in 1995.
Despite the agreement, over 120 countries worldwide,
including the United States, Russia, China, India, the United Kingdom, Poland,
Turkey, as well as Macedonia’s immediate neighbors, Bulgaria and Serbia,
all recognize Macedonia as the Republic of Macedonia. To date, the
only state with any objection to Macedonia’s use of its constitutional
and historic name is Greece.
Upon US recognition, the Greek government began
a serious and threatening diplomatic offensive against Macedonia. It
is no secret that the Greek government intends to block Macedonia’s Euro-Atlantic
integration, especially NATO membership, if it does not remove “Macedonia” from
its name.
What the Greek government fails to recognize is
its attitude towards its sizable Macedonian minority. A verifiable
and well-documented genocide of Macedonians in Greece occurred after the Balkan
Wars (1912-1913), following the Greek-Turkish war (1921-1923) and during the
Greek Civil War (1946-1949).
In a recent interview, the Greek Foreign Minister stated the following:
“I am proud of the capacity of Greek
democracy. All citizens of Greece have equal rights. I am sure
that you already know that in Greece there is only one minority in Western
Thrace and those are the Muslims. There is no such thing as ‘a
Macedonian minority.’ Whenever some political formation has sprung
out under the title of “minority” it has never managed to gain
popular support.” However, the Minister failed to mention that recently
the European Court in Strasbourg found Greece in violation of the rights
of the Macedonian minority in Greece.
Today, Macedonians in Greece are banned from speaking
their language in public, cannot sing to their traditional folk songs, have had
their names transliterated into Greek, and have even had cemetery headstones
in the Macedonian Cyrillic script replaced with Greek ones (the names were transliterated). In
addition, Macedonian visitors to Greece are forced to accept bumper stickers
on their cars declaring, “Macedonia is Greek.” Refugees
from the genocide of the 20th century who list in their passports the Macedonian
(and not Greek) name of their birthplace are declared persona non grata. For
many, this is not an issue of nationalism, but simple failure to know the Greek
names instituted for their hometowns after the Greek occupation. All
of this discrimination is happening in the cradle of Democracy.
The dilemma of how to end state sponsored
discrimination against minorities in Greece is again being revisited by the
international community through criticism from the State Department, Amnesty
International, and other human rights groups, but the primary focus still
fails to connect the Macedonia name issue to the problem of Greek state sponsored
discrimination. Bipartisan support underscoring the need to end oppression
against minorities by the Greek government is strongly urged. Any talks
relating to the Macedonia name issue must incorporate, and focus on, the
discrimination of the Macedonian minority in Greece, as well. At the
end of the day, a country's official name generally poses very little harm
to ordinary people, but the harm posed by turning a blind eye to bigotry,
prejudice, and fanaticism allows discrimination to thrive.
It is not my intent to drag ethnic Balkan politics
into the United States Congress. However, I cannot idly sit by while
my ancestral homeland and my people are slandered by a state which refuses to
acknowledge the existence of any ethnic minorities on its territory, and which
uses its history, ties to the West, and powerful Diaspora as a smokescreen for
non-violent genocide.
I trust you will take my considerations to heart
in light of your meeting with Ms. Bakoyannis. I look forward to your response.
Sincerely,
Metodija A. Koloski, President
--------------------------------------------------
MAKE A DIFFERENCE - UNITED, WE CAN!
JOIN UMD TODAY!
The United Macedonian Diaspora offers many ways for you to get involved, learn about the issues facing Macedonians, and help make a difference in the future of Macedonia and for Macedonians around the world! Click here to become a UMD member.
Bakoyannis: Athens and Washington with different stances
on Macedonia's name
Athens, 17:46
Official Athens is in collision with the US Administration
over the final solution on the name of Macedonia, Greek daily Eleftherotypia
writes in today's edition.
The Athens-based paper draws such a conclusion
from the Greek Foreign Minister Dora Bakoyannis statement that "Athens and
Washington have discordant positions on many issues, particularly in view of
the dispute with Skopje over the name".
According to Eleftherotypia, Bakoyannis statement
given in the interview with the Greek TV station MEGA, clearly demonstrates the
collision between Costas Karamanlis's Government and Washington over the efforts
for resolving the dispute on the name of Macedonia.
The article further says that the collision comes
at the time when Macedonia promotes its candidacy for membership in NATO under
the constitutional name.
Eleftherotypia also comments that Bakoyannis statement
represents unprecedented acknowledgment of discordances between official Athens
and Washington over the future status of Kosovo, as well.
Posted by TrueMacedonian
The funny thing is that this happens while
Greece is in pre-elections period. In the next 12 months there will be elections
in Greece and the name dispute has huge psychological charge for many voters
of the government party of ND (and not only).
I would like to remind everyone in this forum
that the name dispute was the handle to drop the ND government in 1993. And this
can happen now too. The name dispute is to be the handle to drop another ND government
in 2007.
The name dispute ruined Mitsotakis and Samaras
in 1993. The name dispute can ruin Bakoyiannis and Karamanlis in 2007. History
will repeat itself.
In 1993 the name dispute brought to power a heavily
sick, incapable Papandreou (who died after 2 years). In 2007 the name dispute
can bring to power an incapable Papandreou again (George).
So the only thing that the anti-Macedonians finally
manage to do is to bring PASOK in power.
To add to this, Papathemelis announced last week
the entrance into politics of a Thessaloniki based nationalistic party with a
radical anti-Macedonian agenda ready to harvest votes.
I don't feel sorry for Karamanlis and Bakoyiannis.
They should have gotten rid of such an issue, but they didn't do it. They preferred
to exploit it though. Now they will have consequences.
Posted by Alkiviades
NFCA Sends Letter to Congressman Tom Lantos
Monday, 26 March 2007
The United Macedonian Diaspora would like
to extend its sincere thanks to the National Federation of Croatian Americans
for its recent letter to Congress supporting the constitutional name of the
Republic of Macedonia.
Though motivated, our organization can only succeed
in its goals through solidarity with unbiased third parties, capable of distinguishing
the gross injustices carried out in the name of national chauvinism. We applaud
their courage and integrity and offer our heartfelt gratitude.
--------------------------------------------------
March 23, 2007
The Honorable Tom Lantos, Chairman
House Committee on Foreign Affairs
2413 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
Dear Mr. Chairman,
On behalf of the National Federation of Croatian
Americans (NFCA), I want to again express our appreciation for your leadership
in the successful passage of H. R. 987, the NATO Freedom Consolidation Act of
2007, on March 6, 2007. This Resolution, in reference to The Adriatic Charter
(A3), properly refers to the Republic of Macedonia by its correct name. I am
writing today in support of the use of the proper name of our A3 partner.
The Senate companion bill, S. 494, also initially
referred to the Republic of Macedonia with its correct name, but was later amended
by S. Amdt. 462 to change the name to the “Former Yugoslav Republic of
Macedonia” (FYROM). We believe that the proper name of the Republic of
Macedonia was resolved some time ago.
The use of the through-back reference “FYROM” is
derogatory and is an insult to the Macedonian people who have chosen their name
through their right of self-determination and affirmed it in their constitution.
The United States foreign policy has officially recognized Macedonia by its constitutional
name since November 4, 2004. In addition, over 100 countries around the world
formally recognize Macedonia by their constitutional name of the “Republic
of Macedonia”.
The Republic of Macedonia has been a strong ally
of the United States in the war on terror and currently has their troops fighting
along side of American troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. The U. S. wants and needs
the continued support of Macedonia in our Middle East activities. The use of
FYROM could undermine this growing relationship and would negatively impact the
morale of Macedonian troops serving with us.
The NFCA strongly supports our Adriatic Charter
partner, the Republic of Macedonia, and we would appreciate your on-going leadership
efforts to ensure that the House of Representatives version prevails as this
legislation moves forward. I do not think that any of us Americans would like
being referred to as the “Former Colonies of the United Kingdom”.
If the NFCA can be of any assistance in this matter,
please do not hesitate to contact me directly, or the NFCA Director of Public
Affairs, Mr. Joseph Foley at 301-294-0937.
Sincerely,
Edward A. Andrus, President
--------------------------------------------------
The United Macedonian Diaspora works closely together
with the National Federation of Croatian Americans to ensure that the Adriatic
Charter countries, Albania, Croatia, and Macedonia, are invited to join NATO
in 2008.
ABA Sends Letter to Congressman Tom Lantos
Monday, 26 March 2007
The United Macedonian Diaspora would like
to extend its sincere thanks to the American Bosnian Association for its
recent letter to Congress supporting the constitutional name of the Republic
of Macedonia.
Though motivated, our organization can only succeed
in its goals through solidarity with unbiased third parties, capable of distinguishing
the gross injustices carried out in the name of national chauvinism. We applaud
their courage and integrity and offer our heartfelt gratitude.
--------------------------------------------------
March 23, 2007
The Honorable Tom Lantos, Chairman
House Committee on Foreign Affairs
2170 Rayburn HOB
Washington, DC 20515
RE: H.R. 987 - NATO Freedom Consolidation Act of 2007
Dear Mr. Chairman:
The American Bosnian Association (ABA) is the
multi-ethnic association of Bosnian Americans founded in 2002 in the United States
and Canada. We will fully support integrating Bosnian and Herzegovina (BiH) into
the western family of nations as soon as Bosnia and Herzegovina reaches the proper
level of development of its democratic institutions and equal level of constitutional
protection of the rights of all its ethnic groups, Muslims, Croats and Serbs,
and all its citizens. We will continue to promote our views in this regard in
continued discussion with BiH government representatives and US authorities.
ABA will continue to address other matters needing immediate consideration in
Bosnia. These matters include: (1) the continued political imprisonment in Croatia
of former BiH member of the Presidency and winner of the first democratic election
in Bosnia and Herzegovina in 1990, Mr. Fikret Abdic, (2) ongoing and appropriate
political and governmental reforms in BiH, and (3) the outrageous continued expropriation
of large companies in BiH such as Agrokomerc and some others.
Regarding H.R. 987, it has come to our attention
that the inclusion of an amendment in the U.S. Senate - when that body considered
their version of the NATO Freedom Consolidation Act (S. 494) - entailed inappropriate
nomenclature for the Republic of Macedonia. The amendment added the acronym of
FYROM, or "The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia," behind all references
to the Republic of Macedonia in the text of the bill and companion report. This
is a strong insult to the government and people of the Republic of Macedonia,
which the United States has recognized as the preferred name for Macedonia since
2004.
The people of Bosnia and Herzegovina and the people
of Macedonia deserve to be called by the nation-state name of their choosing,
regardless of what an international organization chooses to do on the matter.
The hard pressed independence which was won by both countries from the former
communist Yugoslavia deserves respect and your help in holding the line against
the inclusion of the Senate "FYROM" amendment. Please hold hard against
inclusion of this Senate Amendment in the final bill when in conference committee
with the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. And, please do not consider the
Senate bill in lieu of the House bill.
If the ABA can provide additional input on this matter, please have your
Committee’s staff contact our Government Affairs Advisor, Mr. Joe Foley,
on 301-294-0937 at their earliest convenience.
Thank you.
Bozidar Darko Sicel, President
American Bosnian Association
CC: Hon. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, Ranking Members, Foreign Affairs Committee
Hon. Robert Wexler, Chairman, Europe Subcommittee
Hon. Elton Gallegly, Ranking Member, Europe Subcommittee
Not another BIG Greek Lie?
Nikos Dimou’s Dose of Reality?
Excerpts from his essay The Apology of an
Anti-Hellene. For those who do not know of him, he is the author of the best-seller
The Misfortune of Being Greek
************
To whom do we refer as an anti-Hellene? As a rule,
to Greeks or foreigners who write (or say) unpleasant things about Greeks, who
criticize us, or express opinions we don't like.
Greeks' contemporary self-image is built upon
a series of myths. The myth of continuity. The myth of the racial and cultural
superiority of our ancestors (and, thanks to continuity, our own). The myth of
being special. The myth of racial and religious purity. The myth of the genius
of the Greek race.
The existence of these myths provokes certain
predictable reactions. Thus, my typical compatriot, while proud to be Greek (95
percent, according to polls) will abuse and censure his countrymen at the slightest
provocation. And this, naturally, because they fail to live up to the expectations
and the demands created by the myths.
This explains why we're simultaneously the greatest
eulogizers and the worst critics of ourselves. Depending on our point of view
(and on the moment), we either denigrate Greeks or sing their praises. (In the
former case we usually refer to them as "Romious"). Naturally, both
attitudes are wrong. Instead of applauding or cursing, it would be better to
stop, and think. Calmly, and rationally. (But I forget myself. Rationality is
also a Western, imported Evil for our Helleno-centric intelligentsia. So much
for Aristotle!)
I don't know how bad the West is for us. I do
know that we owe it a lot. From our independence (no one ever mentions Navarino
in 1827, when Western navies helped salvage our battle for independence) to our
love of ourselves.
If any Western import has harmed Greece, it's
been neither rationalism, nor the political system, nor technology. It's been
the idea of the continuity of Hellenic civilization.
Oddly, this idea, which today is waved about like
a banner by anti-Westerners, is an entirely Western notion. Foreign "Philhellenes" uncovered
our ancient monuments, and it was they who taught us to believe that we were
the immediate successors to the ancients, responsible for the continuation of
their traditions. The Romioi of the 18th century didn't feel Greek-much less
of the ancient variety. They were a Balkan nation, originating from the admixture
of many races and cultural traditions, with their own attitudes and ways of thinking.
Out of the blue, the Western "Philhellenes" (and their mimics, our
own "scholars") stuck a helmet on their head, dubbed them keepers of
the ancient flame, and injected them with a passion for purity.
Pure race, ergo, pure language. How this nation
has suffered in the name of purity! It was a first in the history of linguistics:
the creation of an artificial language, a retro-dialect. All impurities were
rooted out, place names were changed, history was distorted-for the sake of proving...what?
That Greece was not a Balkan nation like the others, but a racially pure aristocracy,
not only of the region but of the whole world. Like certain pseudo-bluebloods
who fake their family trees to prove their superiority.
Yet even today our intellectuals call the Greeks "the
aristocracy of nations." Even today many (most) Greeks believe in their
hearts that we are a chosen people. This is why we're always complaining about
the way we're treated. Like spoiled children, we demand of everyone their unconditional
support-even when we're wrong. And we insist on believing that we're always being
cheated, ignoring the fact that we happen to be the only country in the region
to have doubled its size in the last 150 years. We've woven endless conspiracy
theories so as to absolve ourselves of responsibility, and to cast the blame
on others instead. Our belief in our superiority shows up clearly in our racist
attitudes. What Greek doesn't consider himself better than the Turk, the Albanian,
or the "Gypsy-Skopjan"? Go ask a Greek educated audience about Turkish
civilization-they're certain to chuckle.
Not a day goes by without the papers ranting about
some anti-Hellenic threat. The Turk coughed, the American scratched himself-woe
to us! Since my childhood, Greece's history has seemed like a (cheap) Western
movie, one in which the Greeks were, always and unequivocally, the Good Guys.
The Bad Guys were always changing. There was "the threat from the North," then
from the East, then it was the North again, and back to the East. When I was
a child, the word "Bulgarian" was a curse, more so than "Turk." It
was forbidden for Greeks in northern Greece to design themselves as "Macedonian." "Albanian" then
had a neutral tone; today it's become a threat.
I don't consider the Aegean or the Macedonian
issues "national issues." Nor even the economy and public administration
problems.
For me, the one and only national issue is the
one posited by poet Dionysios Solomos: The nation must equate the national with
the true. If this isn't done (and it can't be achieved from one day to the next-it
requires years of effort, mainly in education) then we won't be able to stand
up in today's world. We'll always be in a limbo between whining and belligerence.
We'll spend billions-in blood and sweat-on useless armaments. We'll continually
be quarreling with our neighbors, and with the whole world. We'll see paranoid
schemes and conspiracies everywhere. Like a sick, maladjusted person, we'll spend
our lives wavering between hysteria and depression.
Who will dare to teach Greeks the truth about
their history? (Including, for example, the aforementioned pogroms...). About
the history, and culture, of their neighbors? Who will dare to teach them the
truth about certain "national issues" (like the FIR Athinon, our irrational
airspace)? When will Greeks succeed in seeing themselves as they really are:
a nation like all the others, with abilities and weaknesses, with talent (often
more than this land can hold), and insecurities, capable of both generosity and
mean-spiritedness.
Beyond the overhaul of the economy, I preach the
revamping of our attitudes. Am I really an anti-Hellene? Or do I love Greece?
The future will decide.
Posted by Kassander
From the Slovenian “Zbornik”
A Mistaken Memorandum
After the independence of Slovenia in 1991, a group of Slovene historians published a memorandum to inform the world about the brave Slovenes who dared to resist the Yugoslav army and disabled it in ten days. Unfortunately, included in this memorandum were also pieces of information which do not correspond to reality. We find: "The hour of birth of the Slovene nation began in the second half of the 6th century, when the newly-arrived Slavs started to mix with the remnants of the Romanized local population. Around 630 there formed within the eastern Alps the oldest known Slavic state, Carantania. The Slovenes were known from the 9th to the 13th century as Carantanians-their earliest name."
Unbelievable! How is it possible to concentrate so much error, untruth, and misrepresentation of history in three sentences?
It is not true that the predecessors of Slovenes were Slavs who arrived in the 6th century from the Pripet Swamps or anywhere else. There is no proof and no historical record of this. It is not true that these Slavs mixed with remnants of the Romanized indigenous population, because there was no Romanized indigenous population. Who could this Romanized indigenous population have been? It is not true that Carantania was formed around 630. At that time King Samo's kingdom was formed-probably at Carantania's initiative.
It is not true that the earliest name for the Slovenes was Carantanians-and that only in the 9th century. Let me briefly explain. The arrival of Slavs in the eastern Alps and the upper Adriatic in the 6th century is a fabrication by those who are ignorant of true history and those who want at all cost to deny the Slovenes the right of domicile in central Europe, in spite of the evidence that they resided since the Bronze Age on the lands they occupy now. Even the Italian researcher, Sergi, has recognized, on the basis of archaeological and linguistic research that Slavs had been in Italy since the Bronze Age. This recognition is in complete agreement with the well- known distribution of Venetic Urnfield Culture.
The occupation of the eastern Alps and the upper Adriatic by Slavs in the second half of the 6th century would not have been possible simply because at the time the area was ruled by the Byzantines, who left the eastern Alps (Inner Noricum) in 568 due to the Langobard westward move. What happened in Inner Noricum at that time? Why was it not occupied by Bavarians? Probably because the Norici utilized the opportunity and declared independence, just as was done by the Rhaetians (without success-they were destroyed by the Ostrogoths). Only 27 years after the departure of the Byzantines there is recorded in Inner Noricum a state with the name Sclaborum provincia. Who were the citizens of this state which was later called Carantania? The name itself tells us they were Slavs, but this does not mean there were no national distinctions among Slavs. In the biography of St. Columban from 615 these famous words appear: Termini Venetiorum qui et Sclavi dicuntur-the land of Veneti who are also called Slavs. This means their principal name was Veneti. The name Sclavi (Slavs) was secondary. The very important Fredegarii Chronicon from that time calls the Slovenes several times (!) Veneti or with the German variation Winedi, Wenedi or Winidi; we can see that "Carantanians" was not the earliest name for Slovenes. Another question involves the Slovenes in Pannonia, in Lower Carniola, and in the Slovene Iittoral who did not belong to Carantania. When was the hour of their birth? And who were the people living in the littoral before the supposed arrival of the Slavs? Were they also only remnants of the Romanized population? If the backward Slavs mixed with the locals of high Roman culture, then the result should have been a mixture imbued with Roman culture and its language. But we know that in the Slovene language and culture there are no traces of Romanization.
The puzzle is solved by numerous remnants of the Slovene language from Roman and pre-Roman times, including the Venetic inscriptions. A good example is the inscription osti jarej. The other important element is the direction of the movement of the language boundary. If the Slovene language were moving with new invasions and settlement into Italian territory, then we would find numerous traces of indigenous language in Slovene territory and in the Slovene language. But that is not the case; the exception is a few toponyms from the time of Roman occupation, and even those are usually translations from the original Slovene (Venetic).
But there is a surprisingly large number of Slovene toponyms throughout northern Italy; and, while the Friulian Romance language was being formed, Slovene was the language of Friuli.
I think this is proof enough that the Slovene language existed in pre-Roman times; but with Romanization of the Veneti in Italy, the Slovene language was gradually moved towards the present language boundary between Slovenes and Italians. All this is easy to comprehend if we recognize that the Veneti were the predecessors of modern Slovenes.
If the Slovenes arrived at the doorstep of Aquilea (Oglej) in the 6th century A.D., it would have been a major event and it would have been reported, but there is no such report. Paulus Diaconus mentions Slavs who were in the service of the Avars and fought on the side of the Langobards in Istria (they were Balkan Slavs who were then under Avar rule), which means he is not writing about settlement of Slavs, but rather about soldiers and their campaigns against the Byzantines.
Šavli, Jozko; Bor, Matej; and Tomazic, Ivan. VENETI First Builders of European Community. Boswell B.C., 1996. Pages 500 to 503.
Issues
For in our heart we are Hellene...
What are you talking about you silly little
boy, a Hellenic heart? Wake up! Your heart is as Hellenic as is your “Greek
coffee”.
You have embraced a myth as your reality; a myth
made up by a few half baked 19th century intellectuals. Your being
blessed with being a Hellene is as real as an LSD trip. Look at yourselves a
bit closer and you can still see your true reality behind the overdone stage-makeup
you all wear.
You have a President who reckons his mother spoke Slavic; her native
tongue. You have an ex foreign minister who proudly proclaims his family spoke
arvanitika. Knowing all this you then magically and so naturally embrace a Hellenic
heart. What a joke you are! Should I go on foolish boy, or is it a waste of my
time trying to get a reasonable response from a nation of people in denial and
full of self proclaimed Hellenes with no Hellenic roots.
You have stolen Macedonia and a bit of Thrace
with the help of the Western Powers whose interests your nation served well after
falling under their Hellenic spell.
You only exist because it was necessary for Western
Europe to have a nation called Greece for psychological and geopolitical reasons.
You tried to take over Turkey too but failed miserably
because no help was given to you by your godparents England and France, some
of you in your dreams still covet parts of Italy, Bulgaria, the Ukraine and even
Alexandria.
If you were a powerful country you would have
taken all these places and everyone living on them would today have become “pure
Hellenes” like you.
So why continue your charade? We all know what’s
really beating in the neo Hellenic heart; an insatiable lust for glory and fame.
You are a nation of pretenders and boasters, the
natural result of having a heart that does not belong to you.
By Osiris
What a crock of baloney
What a crock of baloney when I hear Greeks
says “Macedonia is Greek” and Greeks will never give her up because
Greeks and Greece will always hold Macedonia dear to their heart as they
do with any other part of Greek history and Greek territory.
The Greek people have been brainwashed like any
dangerous cult followers. The elements of systematic brainwashing are all there.
One only need look at the mind-altering practices that successive Greek Governments
have employed over the years. One of the easiest ways to identify cultural brainwashing
is to take a look at what a diverse range of people within one nation believe.
With Greeks, they all tell the same story; “Macedonia
is Greek”, “you are Slavs”! From the peasant to the mental
asylum patient, to a professor at some university; the message coming from Greeks
is always the same. This is a very strong indicator of cultural brainwashing
in particular as the purported facts they espouse are very wrong. On the other
hand, you put 10 ethnic Macedonians in a room and you will get 10 different stories;
that’s hardly an example of brainwashing.
The reality is a great majority of Greeks have
only held Macedonia dear since the 1990s, since a part of Macedonia became independent.
Moreover, most of the Greek inhabitants of Macedonia can trace their ancestry
in Macedonia to no earlier then the 1920s, whereas according to Greeks, ethnic
Macedonians have been in Macedonia since 500 AD and still have no right to the
land. Am I missing something here?
How dear could it have been when unlike the ethnic
Macedonian immigrants around the world who named their sporting clubs, social
clubs, etc. using the name Macedonia, the Greeks rarely did and if they did it
was ethnic pro-Greek Macedonians who did it.
Also, it is well documented internationally that
the Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization was trying to remove the Ottoman
Turks from Macedonia. One can barely find an objective unbiased source that refers
to Greeks fighting the Ottoman Turks to liberate Macedonia. That’s how
dear it was to them but hang on that’s unfair because there weren’t
that many Greeks there anyway because most of them came to Macedonia in the 1920s
and 30s.
By Justice Seeker
It's just as easy for Greeks to say “get
of our backs and stop living off our past”
OR... Greeks can just stop living IN THE PAST and realize that the past
does not exclusively belong to Greeks!
All I can say is that Italians are a true representation
of how a country should link with its ancients. How often do you hear some short
little Italian ranting about how his people are Romans and how they are God's
gift to the earth while at the same time trying to claim history from ancient
times and apply it as if it exclusively belongs to the Italians of today. We
can all see that today’s Italians are a shadow of what Romans were in terms
of world culture and political power. But unlike the modern Greeks, modern Italians
are living in the present and are moving forward. They are not obsessed with
two-thousand year old history.
Greeks on the other hand reek of state sponsored
racism. They are taught to live in the past and to view themselves as clones
of the various ancient peoples who back in their own day despised each other.
It is blatantly obvious from the way that many Greeks speak of their history
and culture, that their words mimic what their masters have taught them.
I repeat, snap out of it, it's the 21st century.
Greece has had enough at being a racist country. In fact, it's probably one of
the last remaining racist countries in Europe. Greece’s time of racism
must and will come to an end. It is only natural for this to happen because it
has happened to the rest of the civilized world.
By MKD
I have a question
Are we getting anywhere in our dialogue with the
Greeks in our forum? Yes, with some, a couple to be exact. The rest, it seems
to me, are very good at negating Macedonians and acting as apologists for Greece's
racist behaviour.
Opinions and comments are welcome.
By Maknews
In a word, no! What I am coming to realize
about most Greeks, is that nothing can be done on an individual level. They
only listen to what their masters say and mimic it. They seem not to veer
too far from the crowd and if they do they are either shot down or brought
into line (view the Greek forums as just a small example).
My solution? Only bother cooperating and speaking
with the Greek individuals who show the level of humanity and maturity that is
constructive. There are definitely a growing number of such individuals. As for
the sheep, let them follow whoever they like. Hopefully one day a reasonable
person may come to govern Greece, where the sheep will be given an opportunity
to transform into free thinkers. Until that happens, all we can do is worry about
our own progress.
By MKD
Opinions
Macedonian in Macedonia = Macedonian
Greek in Macedonia = Greek
Macedonian in Greece = Slavophone
Ethnic Macedonian in Greece with beliefs in Hellenic ideology = Greek
Relative of said Ethnic Macedonian less Hellenic Ideology residing in Greece
= Slavophone
Relative of Said Ethnic Macedonian residing in Macedonia = Macedonian
Macedonian in the US = Macedonian
Go figure!
By Kczoran
SLAVS AND HELLENES
Introduction:
It is well known that during the Bronze Age, and
later during classical times there was no unified “Greece” per se.
There was Crete, Sparta, Athens, Thebes, Corinth and others who shared somewhat
common regions and were of somewhat common stock (except for the Cretans). They
may have shared a common language and religion but were not politically united
nor did they share a common name. They were "Hellenes" and the region "Hellas".
It was the Macedonians, Kings Philip II and Alexander III -The Great (also "Hellenes")
whom united them and turned Hellas into an actual nation which, in a more modern/contemporary
version, continues to this day"!!!
-In this discussion we will endeavour to explain the terms "Slavs", "Hellenes" and "Hellas".
-Note: Slavs = Slovani. Furthermore, the "S" was originally pronounced "Z".
Slovani > Slo-vani> Zlo-vani > Z-l-o-vani. (Sloveni/Zloveni is a
dialectal form of the word)
S>Z>Zeus, l > Iliy, o > the "o" links "Zl" (Zeus
and Iliy) to "vani", vani > people
Zlovani > People of (and/or whom have faith/belief to) Zeus and Iliy.
The Anatolian plateau, the Aegean islands, the entire Balkans (where the
Republic of Macedonia and Greece are today), central and eastern Europe was
for millennia inhabited by groups of religious (Zlovani) people! (Due
to the non co-operation of the modern artificial states of Greece and Bulgaria,
for obvious reasons, we have to say that "geographical" Macedonia
is the oldest of the Zlovani peoples' homelands!) The "Macedonian" Zlovani
tribes had earlier received their religion and names of their Gods from Egyptian
messengers! Interestingly (according to recently deciphered ancient stone/bronze
age inscriptions and archaeological finds) all the Zlovani spoke dialects
of the same language/"word". Due to their common religion, their
common language became to be known as "Slov" (ie. Zlov)! Slov (Zlov)
-the language of the Slovani/Zlovani. (Slovansko/Zlovansko jazik - Slovanic/
Zlovanic language). All these groups of people could "Sloviti"/Zloviti,
that is, they could understand and have a "word" with each other!
(sounds all far too familiar!!!???) "Ancient Slavia"!? As we shall
see the term "Ancient Hellas" and "Hellas" basically
has an identical meaning! (and is inappropriate!)
Furthermore, the Zlovani were there long before
the Ancient (independent of each other) City States were formed, at around 800bc!
(NOT ANCIENT GREECE!), before the time of the bronze age Mycenaean civilization
and before the Sub-Saharan/Aftro-Asiatic colonists arrived and settled on European
soil at Morea (modern day Peleponnesus), around 1,600 BC! No wonder the modern,
artificial Greek state, (which, by the way is not the successor to this "Ancient
Hellas") refuses to allow foreign archeologists to dig in its soil!
EVENTS NORTH OF MT. OLYMPUS BEFORE 1600 BC
Over 450,000 ancient proto-"Zlov" inscriptions
have been found on the territory of the modern Macedonian Republic alone! (some
dating back to about 7,000 BC!)
Among the indigenous (and highly civilized) proto-Zlovanic
tribes that lived on the territory of "geographical" Macedonia were
the Pelasgians, Phrygians, Lyncestians, Paeonians, etc.
Consider the following: (p>b>v) Pelasgians> (zhi)Ve-la-sgi> "lives
Iliy and Zeus" (sgi>Zhi>Zeus). Phrygians> V(e)ri/faith, gia > zhia > zeus.> (people
whom have) "faith/belief in Zeus". Or (Zhi)V/lives, ry/ra(the
Egyptian Sun God)>ra-le/ale/ile/iliy (translates to the Zlovanic Sun God),
gi>zhi>zeus. "lives Ra (or "Ale") and Zeus". (Note:
The Phrygian or Brygian were a very old proto-Zlovanic tribe.) Lyncestians> Ly>Iliy,
n>and, cest>zest>zeus. "Iliy and Zeus people". Paeoninas> (Zhi)Vae/lives,
o/ole/ile. "people of the 'life giving' Iliy".
As mentioned, these religious Zlovani spoke dialects
of the same "word"/proto-"Zlov" language from at least 7,000
BC according to proto-Cyrillic like inscriptions found in the Republic of Macedonia
(formerly the socialist Republic of Macedonia within Federal Yugoslavia). Many
millennia later, around 800 BC they would unite in a single kingdom/state under
the name Makedon (Mothers Domain).
EVENTS SOUTH OF MT. OLYMPUS AFTER 1600 BC
As mentioned, many millennia later, around 1,600
BC (during the bronze age) the displaced Sub-Saharan/Afro-Asiatic Colonists/Invaders
crossed the Mediterranean Sea and settled on European soil at Morea (the Peloponnesian
peninsula) and the Aegean islands where they threw the spanner into the engine
works! They came in contact with the indigenous, highly intelligent and civilized
inhabitants: the "Southern" Aegean (proto) Zlov Pelasgians (whom were
already living on these lands!) The primitive, somewhat "Arab" speaking
Colonists/Invaders would have been in "awe" at the "know how" of
the locals and "licking their chops"! They ultimately took everything
from them (including their alphabet) and adopted it for themselves! (They themselves
may, however, already have believed in Zeus and Iliy?!) They took the god Neptune
off the Libyans. A few centuries later these "two" genetically different
peoples would assimilate with each other and form independent kingdoms around
the Peleponnesus region, though they would answer to the Mycenaean King. They
were the Mycenaeans and/or early "Hellenes".
Note: 'Mycenae' is a "Zlovic" term.
(it sounds like and is not to dissimilar to the later Roman region of Moesia/My'sia
which was a Zlovanic territory situated north of then Roman occupied Ancient
Macedonia, current Serbian territory). Mycenae> My-ze> "My Zeus",
(nae)> is a suffix, making it a female gender term which refers to the establishment.
Moesia > Moe/My, si >zi> zeus, "My Zeus", (a) > is a suffix,
making it a female gender term which refers to the territory.
Note: Hellenes (could also be derived from Zlovani)
(H>x>z) He>Ze>Zeus, lle>Iliy, nes > people
Hellenes > people of (and/or whom have faith/belief to) Zeus and Iliy
THE TROJAN WAR 1,193 - 1,183 BC
Homer, in the Iliad mentions (Macedonian) "tribes" Paeonian,
Brygian or Phrygian, Venets or Enets, etc, (note Venets or Enets are basically
City-State terms for other "Zlovani" tribes) whom all live north of
Mt. Olympus that fight on the side of the proto-Zlov Trojans against the Mycenaean
allies ("early" 'assimilated' peoples/hybrids that live around the
Peloponnesian Peninsula, conquerors whom he calls Danaians. (Note: There was
a prehistoric Egyptian King by the name of Danaos who was a native black African
of Egypt! The Egyptians, of course, were predominantly black people.)
As mentioned, the irony is that the soldiers of
the Danaian (Mycenaean allies) would have been (would you believe) proto-Zlov
- Sub-Saharan/Afro-Asiatic and/or Sub-Saharan/Afro-Asiatic - proto-Zlov "hybrids" and/or
mere "mongrels"!!! Achilles and Odysseus amongst them!!!
The 'early' "assimilated" Mycenaean
states/allies would have spoken an early form of Koine. Linear B was a hybrid
alphabet heavily construed from proto-Zlovic Cretan Linear A (and proto-Arab).
As a result of considerable proto-Zlov "southern" Aegean Pelasgian
influence this "new" (still early) society became proto-Hellenic (
Thus, the Zlovani tribes north of Olympus spoke a dialect of the indigenous "Zlov" language
and the Helleni tribes to the south (especially around the Peloponnesus region,
who were hybrids spoke a dialect of 'early' Koine.
AFTER THE COLLAPSE OF THE MYCENAEAN CIVILIZATION (AROUND) 1,100 BC NEW
SOCIETIES "ONCE AGAIN" WERE FORMING TO THE SOUTH OF MT OLYMPUS.
Could the Mycenaeans have been conquered by the
proto-Zlov tribes (who lived north of Olympus) thereby sending the region south
of Olympus into a so-called 'Dark Age which lasted until the 700's BC? The Peleponnesus,
however, was to transform further both culturally and linguistically from 800
BC.The more civilized Egyptian Colonists arrived and overwhelmed the existing
civilization. They eventually became assimilated themselves in the new cultural
melting pot. Phoenician ('other' proto-Zlovic) Colonists arrived around this
time as well. This transformation (the melting pot) resulted in the formation
of the Ancient (independent of each other) City States/NOT ANCIENT GREECE!
Like the 'early' bronze age assimilated "Colonizer/Invader" Sub-Saharan/Afro-Asiatic & "indigenous" 'southern'
Aegean proto-Zlov Pelasgian whom became the so-called 'early' "Hellene",
this new society (whom lived in war like states which were independent of each
other) would famously (falsely) be given the title of "Hellenes" (by
the 19th century western impostor historians!)
Could the various proto-Zlov tribes north of Olympus
have united under the name Makedon because of this "hybrid" City-State
threat? That is, under the slogan: "United we are stronger"?! Interestingly,
according to 'ancient Mediterranean mythology' (NOT ANCIENT GREEK) ('mythology'
is a Zlovic term itself!) from Zeus and Tira the older son 'Macedon' was born.
The Olympic Games started in 776 BC and were held
on Mount Olympus. The City State Helleni would not allow the indigenous Macedonian
Zlovani from the north of the mountain to compete! They classified them as 'barbarians'!
The "babblers" of foreign speech! The Ancient Macedonians were a very
religious people. The adjectives "Var" and "Ver" appear prominently
in their names. "Var" in Macedonian means 'to protect'. "Ver" means
to have 'faith and/or belief'. Therefore, the term "Varvari" (barbaroi)
was "also" a racial slur imposed on the 'religious', indigenous proto-Zlovic
Ancient Macedonians by the 'later' Sub-Saharan-Afro-Asiatic/proto-Zlovic, etc,
(hybrid) citizens of the Ancient City States (NOT ANCIENT GREECE)!
In classical times "other" (later) proto-Zlovani
tribes throughout Europe (excluding the "united proto-Zlov tribes" of
Makedon) were mentioned by City-State (NOT ANCIENT GREEK) and Roman historians,
but they called them by different names, like Rheti, Veneti, Anti, Enetoi, etc.
As previously mentioned, during the 'early' to
'classical' City-State age there was Athens, Sparta, Thebes, Corinth, etc. (They
were not unified as the Macedonian tribes were!) They spoke dialects of the hybrid
Koine language (which was heavily construed from the indigenous proto-Zlov language).
The Macedonians (ordinary citizens) only spoke proto-Zlov. (Only at a later time
did 'some Macedonian elite' speak Athenian 'broken koine' as a second language)
This is because Koine had become the International Mediterranean Language of
Trade and Commerce.
If Athens, Sparta, and the rest of the Ancient
(independent of each other) City-States, (the so-called Hellenes/Hellas) were
based on a similar language (dialect Koine, Zlov based), customs, culture, (Zlov
based), religion (Zlov based), etc (as today's modern, artificial "Hellenized" non-Greeks
tell us) thus, being different groups of people, then by that logic being a "Hellene" (and
Hellas) is equivelant to being a Slov ("Zlov") (and Slovanic/Zlovanic),
don't you think?! Zlovani (today) are different groups of people whom share the
same basic language and many cultural aspects. Examples, Russians, Ukrainians,
Macedonians, Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Serbians, Croatians, etc!
So, if Athens, Sparta, etc can all be called "Hellenes" then
being a "Hellene" is not (specifically) based on ethnicity, and being
a "Hellene" is as non-specific as being a "Zlov"!
After being provoked the Ancient Macedonians had
to conquer and weld the Ancient City-States together. (NOT THE ANCIENT CITY STATES
WITH MACEDONIA!!!) As per the Rosetta Stone in Egypt, the Ancient Macedonians
(like Homer) centuries later also called the citizens of the Ancient City States
'Danajtsi' (Danaians)!!! If the Ancient City-States hadn't disappeared from history
together with their people (i.e. they melted away, were assimilated over the
ages and replaced by new comer races), then today we could've had a situation,
in football/soccer terms where for example, Russia could've been drawn to play
Athens! Ukraine V Sparta, or Macedonia V Thebes, etc!!! (as one Digest reader
previously put it)
The Macedonians on the other hand continued to
exist, though part of states and/or the empires of others.
The various groups of Zlovani throughout Europe
(including the "united Zlovani tribes of Makedon") became "SLAVS"!!!
Slav history began with the first mention of the "Slavs" which happened
to take place in Justinian’s time in the 6th century AD.
"Slav" is a form of group identity (which
some arguably would call ethnicity) that emerged in response to Justinian’s
implementation of a building project on the Danube frontier (not far from where
the Macedonians were). The Slavs in other words did not come from the north but
became Slavs only when they were in contact with the Roman frontier!
An overwhelming majority of the so-called "Slav" people
throughout Europe became Christians before and after the 6th century AD. Christianity
is a continuation of the Ancient Mediterranean (NOT ANCIENT GREEK) mythology.
(ie. Zeus and Iliy / Jesus and God / Jesus> Je/Zh(iv)e> lives, sus> Zeus, > "lives
Zeus". God> g>zh, d>z>s, >Zhos>Zeus>Zev>Ziv>life). "Pravo-Slav" is
a church or religious term meaning "Orthodox Christian" (remember the
term 'proto' Zlov/Zlovan/Zlovani).
Slava means glory. Slavlje means celebration.
This clearly describes the importance of glory and celebration in all these people's
culture. Slavica is a female name. Slavko is a male's.
There was no mass "push south," so-called
6th century AD Slav migration! (there were only minor incursions from other Slav
speakers!)
The Macedonians managed to establish a short lived
42 year old state/empire! (976-1018 AD) A Kingdom under the reign of Tsar Samoil.
(Samo > only. Il > Iliy. "Only Iliy"!) After the death of Samoil,
the Macedonian state weakened, and its lands soon came again under Byzantine
sovereignty.
The so-called 6th century AD concocted theory
that the Slavs migrated south to the Balkans was nothing more than a fabricated
attempt to distort history by the cold blooded "Great Western
Powers" of the 19th century AD to suit their agendas and those of their
allies, namely the newly created artificial state of Greece!!!
England/Great Britain and France, the 19th century
Great Powers created the modern, fabricated, "Hellenized" anti-Slav
buffer state of Greece for the first time in history in 1829
purely for strategic reasons to offset Slavic Russia! Macedonia, being a
Slavic nation (since antiquity) was sacrificed! England/Great Britain then
approved the falsification and subsequent (false) "Hyalinization" of
Ancient purely proto-Slavic Macedonian history!!!
The Ancient City States and their citizens disappeared
from history a very long time ago. The name "Greece" was 'plucked'
out of the air and imposed on the modern (artificial) Greek Kingdom by the 19th
century Great Powers (Britain, France and Germany). The people of the modern,
artificial Greek state also inappropriately call themselves "Hellenes" (Ellines)
and their state "Hellas" (Ellas).
By using the name "Greek" to refer to
both the ancient and modern people, the Greek state falsely implies descent for
the modern (artificially "Hellenized") people from the ancients.
By using the name "Greece" to refer
to both the ancient and modern states, the Greek state is falsely implying;
(1) continuity between the ancient City States and modern Greece, and
(2) that there was some sort of political unity between the ancient City
States themselves where one did not exist.
In reality the words "Greece" and "Greek" were
popularized by modern 19th century writers. There are no ancient maps or references
with the words "Greece"! Greece is a newly created state which never
existed before the 19th century!
The Romans may have made some references to the
ancient people living in Sicily as "Grekos" but they referred to the
region south of Olympus as "Achaia"! The 'Grekos' were an ancient City
State (earlier colonist) family that lived in Sicily. Some believe the word means
'pirates' probably because the Grekos were pirates.
According to ancient Mediterranean mythology (NOT
ANCIENT GREEK), after 'Macedon', next to be born was "Grekos', Zeus's second
son born from his daughter Pandora. Is this where the 19th century AD 'forgers'
plucked the name "Greece" and "Greek" from to refer to the
new, artificially formed state?!
Could "Grekos' (Greek/Greece) be a proto-Slavic
term?!
Consider the following: G-re-kos > (g>z, k>g>z) > Z-re/ra-gos/zos,
Z(ive)/lives, re/ra/'rajgjan'/the born, kos/gos/zos/zeus, "lives the
born Zeus"
For what the people of the Ancient City-States
(NOT ANCIENT GREECE) may once have been, the so-called Hellenes, who themselves
were heterogeneous to begin with (i.e. assimilated Sub-Saharan/Afro-Asiatic Colonists,
assimilated indigenous "Southern" Aegean proto-Slav Pelasgians, Egyptian
Colonists, Phoenician>proto-Slavic Colonists, etc) the people of the modern,
artificial Greek state can hardly have much blood relationship with them! The
people of the modern, artificial Greek state are falsified, "Hellenized" non-Greeks!!!
Ancient Macedonians, Romans, Slaves (including Blacks from Africa) Goths, Huns
(and other Barbarian invaders), "Other Slavs" (from north of the Danube),
Franks and Venetians, Turks, Albanians, Roma (Gypsy's), Vlachs, Jews, Egyptians,
Armenians, *some "real" Macedonians since 1913, Turkish Christian Prosfigs
(the impostor Macedonians!), etc, etc,......., in one invasion/settlement after
another have made the people of the modern, artificial Greek state a decidedly
mongrel race!!!
The terms "Slavs" and "Hellenes" were
both 'religious' terms originally and both mean the same thing, though, a "Hellene",
however, is an offshoot of Slav (ie. Zlovan)!!! "People of (and/or who have
faith/belief to) Zeus and Iliy"!!!
There are no "Hellenes" living today!
Only "manufactured" ones! (a mongrel race like no other!)
Jelena is a common female Serbian (Slavic) name.
Derived from 'Zele' > the 'life giving' (Slavic) Sun God Iliy, 'part' father
of Zeus. Helen is a common female modern Greek name (an offshoot of Jelena)!
The people of the modern, artificial Greek state
call their country "Hellas", which too is inappropriate! By this logic,
all the Slavic countries throughout Europe today can all come under the one banner
of "Slavia"!!!
Modern "Hellenized" non-Greeks use the
word "Slav" as a derogatory term to denigrate the Macedonians. It has
become synonymous with modern Greek ("Hellenized"- non) hatred. -In
the Macedonian Digest, edition 12, "email of the month section", there
was a comment from a modern, artificial "Hellenized" non-Greek individual
by the name of Paris DeAngelo: "GO FCUK (French Connection/United Kingdom)
(Hmmm, France and the United Kingdom!?) YOURSELF YOU SLAVIC PIECE OF TRASH! YOU
ARE NOTHING BUT A SLAV WITH A SEVERE INFERIORITY COMPLEX IN REGARDS TO GREEKS!" Hypocritical
really, considering a "Hellene" is basically an offshoot of a "Slav",
and the fact that the people of the Ancient City-States (NOT ANCIENT GREECE)
inherited not only proto-Slavic blood, but proto-Slavic culture and "know
how" as well!!! (though vigorously denied by the modern, artificial state
of Greece!)
Modern "Hellenized" non-Greeks are not
only a messed up people, but are leeches as well. I once used a cigarette lighter
to burn one off of me!
The facts mentioned in this essay are clearly
the reasons why the antiquity obsessed modern "Hellenized" non-Greeks
of today can't even smile when they meet a "REAL" Macedonian!!!
By ZAC I -THE FIRST (Australia)
Concerns
Re: A(2006)13089 - RE: Macedonian Human Rights in Bulgaria
Dear Mr Cougnon,
Thank you for your response, which was most welcome and appreciated.
However, I would like to iterate by expanding the issue after reading specific terminology that you submit in your retort. Firstly, with all due respect, this being the somewhat patronizing phrase 'theoretic schemes'. Mr Cougnon, it is a well-known fact that in 1913 Macedonia was invaded and partitioned by the Treaty of Bucharest by Serbia, Greece, and Bulgaria; an event which will go down in the annals of history as one of the world’s greatest tragedies. None of these states ever existed prior to the 1800's! They based their claims to Macedonian territory entirely on anachronistic history for which there is no proof, and for which Greece and Bulgaria maintain to this day with an obsession bordering on the psychotic. The Treaty of Bucharest was signed and put into law with absolutely no representation or consent from the indigenous Macedonian population! What followed was decades of brutal and forced assimilation bordering on genocide for those people who were not expelled or driven from their ancestral lands outright.
These facts, which we believe render the Treaty of Bucharest 'illegal', are precisely why Europe can never guarantee peace and stability in the Balkan region until the ethnic Macedonians are fully recognized, respected and brought to the table. Great Power politics, mostly from England, France and Russia to satisfy their own interests, took precedence in 1913, as did in the 1800's when the three states: Greece, Bulgaria and Serbia were 'thought up', followed by the demarcation of artificial borders and the 'lumping' together of several ethnicities into one nationality. Yet, people in the Balkans had lived in peace for millennia without the relatively modern concept of nationality, which was forced upon them by foreign interests. These are facts, which the EU can no longer ignore and some day must face up to. Furthermore, the EU must follow the lead set down by the United States, China and Russia by fully recognizing the Republic of Macedonia under it's constitutional name and cease from using the derogatory and bizarre acronym 'FYROM' insisted upon by Greece to further it's own sinister nationalist agenda, truth masking, and propaganda. This is a crucial step the EU must initiate at once if peace, stability, human rights and dignity are to prevail in the Balkans and, in the rest of Europe for that matter.
In addition, it is not very comforting to hear of the 'obligatory' nature regarding the ECHR rulings and the 'convenient' separation of powers between the EU and The Council of Europe, even though stability in the region is a EU matter (if not it should be). Yes, we know that fines have been levied in the past however the fines do not or rather should not relinquish any responsibility towards granting peoples rights to live as they choose after a fine has been paid. After all, are the rulings obligatory in a legal sense i.e. to force the member state to change its practices in the future? Or is it just that? A mere fine to pay as long as ‘you continue to do what you do' like speeding in traffic.
Finally Sir, I would like to direct you to an independent article published (http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=23883) on the American Chronicle website by Dr. Muhammad Shamsaddin Megalommatis and say in closing that whether, as individual's or part of the many growing organizations which now exist, who stand up for Macedonian rights, we are a worldwide Macedonian Diaspora and recognized everywhere as Macedonians except in Greece and Bulgaria. We will be watching and speaking out to defend the beloved ancestral land and culture of our forefathers that is, Macedonia. I would also like to add that it is 'we' who demand to tell the world including western scholars and the so-called 'historians' the truth about who we are, what we are and, about our illustrious past. No one else is entitled to speak for us as guaranteed by the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the Helsinki Agreement and the Vienna and Copenhagen documents of the Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe.
My apologies regarding the emotional tone of my letter.
Most Sincerely,
Tony T.
Choices
Let's see if I can poke a hole here...
To the Greeks, despite my conscience, I will use
your terminology to make sure you understand what I say and ask in the following:
First of all some definitions:
1. When you see the word 'Macedonia' in the following,
I am referring to the part of Macedonia that I would call Aegean Macedonia and
you know it as Macedonia (Northern part of Greece based on Greece's modern borders).
2. When you see the word "Slavic" in
the following, I am referring to the language I know as Macedonian but to avoid
you giving me a 'I don’t recognize that language' response, I'll use your
misguided terminology.
Now:
There is no doubt that in Macedonia there exists
a sizeable population (at least 50k - there could be a million, but for argument's
sake, let's keep it really small, but not negligible at 50,000) who speak the "Slavic" language.
This we already agree on. You refer to these people
as Ethnic Greeks who speak the Slavic idiom, I refer to them as my relatives,
ethnic Macedonians.
Moving on, these people who you recognize as ethnic
Greeks who just speak a Slavic idiom - being Greeks (according to you) from the
region of Macedonia (as you call it), are they also descendants of the Ancient
Macedonian Kingdom? They must be, right? If you say they are 'ethnic Greeks',
they must be like the rest of the 'Greeks' who live in the region of Macedonia
(total population 2.7 million). Agreed?
So, now this sizeable population which you say
are just Slavophone Greeks, speak the same language (you call it 'Slavic', I
call it Macedonian) that I speak.
What makes you so sure that they are ethnic Greeks,
and descendants of the ancients, but only speak a 'Slavic idiom' - but less than
20km across the border, the people who speak that exact same language, you claim
to be "Slavs" from the "Slavic Tribes who invaded the Balkans".
How is it that in borders (which didn't exist
during Byzantine and Ottoman periods) there is a distinction that these people
on one side of this newly created border are 'ethnic Greeks' (according to you)
and on the other side they are 'Slavs' - while they speak the exact same language?
More to the point, how can it be that these 'ethnic
Slavophone Greeks' (which is how you call them) have blood relatives less than
20km away, which today happens to be across a border, who clearly say they are
not Greeks, but ethnic Macedonians - yet you refer to them as Slavs. How can
it be that you can refer to 1 person as an "ethnic Greek" who speaks
a "Slavic idiom" (but you consider to be an ethnic Greek) yet you consider
their blood relatives their 1st cousins (fathers are brothers) to be "Slavs" or "Skopjans"?
Painful writing that nonsense, but I can only
hope it shows some of the Macedonians from Aegean Macedonia (today's Northern
Greece) who've assimilated into Greeks yet know their family speaks or once spoke
this 'Slavic' language (which is how you would know it) - that there is a gaping
hole in the Greek story.
That 'Slavic' language is in fact Macedonian and
We are the same people, many of us are related.
A border was drawn in 1913 after a war, but the
blood remained where it was - Macedonians on one side of the new border, and
Macedonians on the other side of the new border, many divided families, but all
one people, ethnic Macedonians.
To the many of you, Macedonians from today's Northern
part of Greece (known as Macedonia) - if you or your family ever spoke that language
referred to as 'Slavic' - I urge you, join the forum, email someone here - we
can show you who you are, we know people from almost every village and town,
yours too - we can give you the truth, without the propaganda, without the fear,
just the truth.
You are Macedonians, just like the Macedonians
from the Republic of Macedonia.
By Rogi
"Teodoros Pangalos "Macedonian Republic Skopje" was
the best solution.
"Macedonian Republic Skopje" or "Macedonian
Republic (Skopje) was my suggestion for the name of your country and I think
it was the best solution from what I’ve heard.
That name, which was possible whether it was your
choice with pressure or like a problem or like a result of the international "posrednishtvo" could
be a solution, says the former Greek minister of foreign affairs Teodoros Pangalos
in his interview for the Macedonian newspaper "Dnevnik"
According to him the good thing would be the usage
of the adjective 'Macedonian'.
Macedonian as an adjective could be used for the
meaning of nationality like you think you are. I think this was the best solution."
Translated from Macedonian to English by Dracevec
Mr. Pangalos is not a serious person. He
acknowledges that at home his family spoke an Albanian dialect but that they
are 100% pure Ellines. I guess these 'Albanophone Greeks' must have picked
up an Albanian 'idiom' in order to do business. Either that or marauding
bands of Albanian speakers forced these 'pure Hellenes' to learn Albanian.
This must be his 'narrative'.
In fact, we don't 'think' we are Macedonian, we
'know' we are Macedonian. It's Mr. Pangalos -- the Albanophone -- that thinks
he is 'Greek'.
His name suggestion is idiotic but I wouldn't
expect more from him. I am disappointed that he didn't offer his suggestion as
to what Macedonians should call the land of the Albanophone, Slavophone, Vlachophone
and Turkophone Greeks.
Pangalos, the self-loathing Arvanite, cannot (allegedly) understand his mother tongue but he can speak and understand a language that supposedly descends from the ancient Greeks of 2,500 years ago. These are the kinds of claims one would expect from Alice in Wonderland.
Maknews
Greetings letter from the Greek Labour
Union ‘Dimokritos’;
To the National Union of Macedono-Australians in the state of Victoria
Australia in October 1953
Dear friends,
The Labour Union “Dimokritos” (Ergatikos
Sindezmos Dimokritou) and all democratic Greeks in Australia congratulate your
national day, Ilinden.
The freedom war of the Macedonian people for freedom
from the Turks which reached its peak with the establishment of the Ilinden Uprising…….
The uprising of your people failed, it did not
succeed to liberate Macedonia. After 9 years namely in 1912 the Turks were driven
from Macedonia only for them to be replaced by new Turks, these are the Greek
hosts, colonizers and exploiters and blood-suckers.
Our peoples’ today struggle under the slavery
of the modern Turks, Monarcho-Fascist…… That is why brothers our
nation leads a united war, a war that largely lies on the shoulders of the Greek
and Slavic-Macedonian peoples for one true freedom and independence/autonomy,
and now ….. of the National Revolutionary War of Freedom of our peoples’ started
before 1941-49 and still isn’t finished.
Our strong conviction is that the unity of our
two peoples will triumph over the tyranny of fascism which holds in bondage the
whole of Greece and gives the people to the merciless American imperialists so
they can suck their blood.
Our brothers who laid the groundwork for our unity
and signed with their blood and their bones the agreements for our land……..
Long live our unity. Long live Ilinden!
George Zangalis, Secretar.
Posted by Soldier of Macedon
TRACING ETHNIC ORIGINS
The people of the modern artificial state of Greece
are manufactured "Hellenized non-Greeks! (ie. Vlachs, Albanians, Anatolian
Christian Prosfigs, Gypsies, Turks, Jews, Armenians, Egyptians, some Macedonians
and others). There are no 'real' Greeks! There is no specific 'Greek' ethnicity!
The people of the former Ancient City States (NOT
ANCIENT GREECE) were Euro-Africans! (hybrids!)
The modern "Hellenized" non-Greeks should
not be too preoccupied with the fabricated (19th century politically motivated)
theory of the 5th and 6th century AD 'over the Carpathian mountains' Slav Migrations
to the Balkans (of which the 'territory' where the modern Greek state is now
situated on was somehow immune!) There were, however, only minor incursions!
Instead, the modern "Hellenized" non-Greeks
should be asking questions (not only of themselves, but) about the Bronze Age
migration of the Sub-Saharan/Afro-Ethiopians into Morea! (modern day Peleponnesus)
(This "yoke" did not penetrate north beyond Mt. Olympus into "Macedonian" lands!)
They should also be asking questions about the pre-historic, indigenous proto-Slavic
inhabitants of the entire Balkans! "SEARCH FOR YOUR REAL ROOTS YOU PEOPLE"!!!
By Atanas
Free Advice
The Welsh lesson for Macedonians
In recent times I have been employed by an international
educational organization based in Cardiff, Wales in the United Kingdom. On my
frequent stays there I have learned something of the history of Wales and the
Welsh people, and I find some of their story very instructive for Macedonians.
The Welsh people are the descendants of a very
ancient people in the British Isles, the Celts, who were conquered by the Romans
in the first century AD.
Conquest of the ancient Britons and Welsh did
not lead to their total destruction, however. They retained their language and
culture in Roman times and even when the Anglo-Saxons and later the Normans invaded
England, they only retreated to the more remote mountainous regions of Scotland
and Wales and lived on.
By the late 20th century Wales had a population
of about 3 million people, the majority of whom could only speak English due
to the dominance of the English language, culture and society there. Only about
half a million Welsh living in small, remote villages still spoke the Welsh language.
It was by then no more than a quaint household language, not taught in the schools
and of little or no value in public life.
However, in 1997 the United Kingdom, no longer
feeling threatened by local autonomy, did not stop the people of Wales from holding
a public referendum on what they called "devolution" of the Kingdom.
The people of Wales were asked to vote on whether they wished to create a Welsh
assembly and establish an autonomous Welsh state within the United Kingdom after
hundreds of years of assimilation and second-class citizenship.
The vote by about one million Welsh citizens was
extremely close. About half were for and half opposed to devolution, and it passed
by only several tens of thousands of votes. The almost exclusively English-speaking
population of the big cities of the southwest and the English-dominated resort
communities of the south coast mainly opposed devolution, but the rural communities
of the mountainous central and northern regions of Wales voted overwhelmingly
for devolution and it passed.
As a result today all schoolchildren in Wales
learn Welsh in school. All street signs are in Welsh and English. There are newspapers,
magazines and books printed in Welsh and radio and television stations broadcast
in Welsh. The national assembly has acted to preserve and advance the Welsh language
and culture that was on its way to extinction.
What is the lesson for Macedonians here? So long
as northern Greece and western Bulgaria continue to have Macedonian communities
in which even a minority of the people retain their native language and culture,
there will always be the possibility of a political and cultural revival. The
Welsh were also reduced to a marginal minority in their own native land. Only
one in six citizens could still speak the language. In the big cities especially
there were hundreds of thousands of people who had lost touch with the old ways.
This was mainly due to English migration to the cities and resort regions and
inter-marriage with Englishmen, and the fact that Welsh was not encouraged in
public life, in business, education or cultural life.
To be Welsh was not a source of pride, but the
mark of rural backwardness and second-class citizenship. The only knowledge I
ever had of the Welsh was the popular "Mother Goose" English nursery
rhyme: "Taffy was a Welshman, Taffy was a thief, Taffy came to my house
and stole a leg of beef. I went to Taffy's house, Taffy was in bed, so I picked
up the marrow bone and hit him in the head!" Not a very flattering rhyme
for the Welsh people, and quite indicative of English attitudes for many centuries,
I'm sure.
But now the tide has turned. Those who imagine
that Greek or Bulgarian dominance of the native Macedonian people of Pirin and
Aegean Macedonia is forever should consider the unlikelihood of a rebirth of
the Welsh language, culture and society at the end of the 20th century and on
into the 21st. Only one in six Welsh citizens still spoke the language. Over
a million Welsh people were assimilated into English culture and society. Yet,
when they were
finally allowed to choose, a majority still chose to assert their Welsh identity.
With some million children now in school learning in their native Welsh language,
the revival of their culture and society is assured. It can happen in occupied
Macedonia.
One other interesting note, in a conversation
I had with one young Welshman he mentioned that, unlike the English, whose language
has undergone such change that modern Englishmen can barely understand Old English
from a thousand years ago, the Welsh, whose language was only a household spoken
language for many hundreds of years, are able to read and understand old Welsh
texts from fifteen hundred years ago without much difficulty. We have evidence
from Macedonia that the rural people there, due to their isolation have also
retained speech that is very ancient.
By Dr. Michael Seraphinoff
http://www.macedonianlit.com
DIALOGUE ON DIFFERENCES
Our differences are our strengths. They should
not be sources for our division.
They should be sources for our celebration. If everybody was the same, what
a boring and terrible world this would be.
The homogenous characteristic does not naturally
belong or have a place in the human world.
It belongs to the nature of ideological abstracts and its purpose is to secure
political hegemony: It is a very effective means of maintaining power and
control, of the many, by the few dominant ruling elite. It is a politically
manufactured characteristic, not a naturally occurring human phenomenon.
The naturally occurring diverse populations, of
humankind, have always been its victims, whether they are the ethnic minorities,
or the privileged majority, who are force-fed the enormity of the lies that they
are expected to swallow, as our world views are purposely distorted. The homogenous
society is a very oppressive society as it only acknowledges and perpetuates
the 'one' voice. This is Greece's official political position. Ironically the
proud nation that gave freedom of speech and democracy to the rest of the world
is committed to suppression and intolerance of its own non-Hellenic difference,
be it cultural, multi-ethnic, linguistic, or ideological.
Our lack of self-criticism, self-knowledge, and
our insistence on absurdly holding onto an ancient 'continuity' has translated
itself, into extreme self-importance, for too many Greek individuals, as it seems,
sadly enough, that the propaganda has embedded itself much too deeply inside
the Greek psyche.
Are we aware of the diversity of our Balkan neighbours?
No! How can we be, when our 'one' voice must exist at the expense of others.
The greatest 'proof' of the existence of the rich
multi-ethnic and multi-cultural diverse antiquity that we all share, ironically
comes from the very diverse and complex concepts that arose out of the ancient
Balkans. The ideas were so creative, so vibrant and so amazing, that they were
perhaps unprecedented in any similar parallel to be found before and since, in
history.
The reason for this, in that particular geographical
location, is because there is such a LARGE collection of multi-ethnicities assembled
together, vying against, and creating so many very different concepts, and each
rivaling against the others, in COMPETITION, in such a concentrated period of
time. (esp. 5 BC and 6 BC - the so-called 'Golden Age of Greece'.)
Why were the ancient 'Greek' philosophies, so
many, in sheer volume, and so varied in conceptual thought, and hence each one,
so different from one another? In other, more insular ancient civilizations,
ideas that arose were more uniform in similarity, and fewer in amount, and impact.
They were great, sure - undeniably so, but just
fewer, and more repetitive, reflecting a similarity in values, philosophies,
art and design, traditional rites, and generally, far less cultural variation.
Not so in the Balkan world, during the Hellenic
ancient civilization.
The 'concepts', the ideas, the cultural variations
in the Balkans, however, cannot be adequately explained by 'migrations', and
'conquests' alone, because that occurred everywhere on the planet, to some degree.
The many variations came from the minds of the multi-ethnic people that co-inhabited
the Balkans, at the same time.
If these people were all ethnically and culturally
THE SAME, then why did their concepts and ideas vary so greatly from one another,
as well as compete?
In the absence of nationhood, this competition
can be seen to be parallel to today's competing narratives. In reality, they
WERE the multi-ethnic and multicultural voices that were snuffed out, one
by one, and absorbed into the ONE voice: the competing voice, as the concept
of nationalism was born.
Through the principle of reductionism, the 'Hellenic'
civilization came to denote the Greek nationality, thus disappearing in the vast
array of foreign input and contribution...not to mention being factually wrong.
The Greek homogenous state has silenced these
voices, which although rendered silent, never did cease to exist. This is politics
that befits the dark ages of man's passage of the human heart and soul. Have
we not moved, conceptually, beyond the values of petty tribal feudalism?
I now ask that we acknowledge these voices, and
respectfully free them, because not only have they always existed with us, but
they were part of the world we all created, together.
If we do not buy the politician's lies, people with differences can co-exist,
peacefully and productively as evidenced in our past.
We need dialogue between us, but we Greeks cannot
do it, if we insist on continuing as 'one' voice we will only continue talking
to ourselves.
By Katerina
History
Ancient Macedonians:
Differences Between the Ancient Macedonians and the Ancient Greeks
For the past several years we have endeavored
to find the real truth about the ethnicity of the ancient Macedonians. We
plunged into this, interesting and controversial (not any more) topic, for
us, with the intent to satisfy our own curiosity at first, and then with
the obtained knowledge, to confront and, if possible, refute the assertions
that ancient Macedonians were Greek people and that the legendary legacy
of their kings and dynasties somehow should be ascribed to Greek history.
At first, we were overwhelmed with the amount of literature and material
to be covered, but as time went on, and the number of authors who clearly
separated the ancient Macedonians from the ancient Greeks increased dramatically,
we found ourselves standing on the shoulders of giants. We could now clearly
see that something was amiss, and that a great injustice has been done to
a nation whose achievements and legacy has been railroaded and usurped with
a shameless and reckless abandon. We were saddened, and quite puzzled at
the fact that so many learned people have accepted the given scenarios and
went along with so many Inaccurate assertions that simply boggles the mind.
University professors know the truth, we concur, but why do we still find
history textbooks for high school students that bristle with heavy inaccuracies?
Is gently stroking the ego of a wounded "ally" more important than
the dissemination of truth to our students? We think not.
Here, you will find that ancient Macedonians were
not Greeks and that the evidence supporting this thesis is overwhelming. To the
ancient peoples and to the ancient authors
that was not a matter for debate. It was simply, an accomplished fact.
It is time for today's historians to reexamine
their conclusions and give proper credit to the
kings and dynasts who ruled the known world for centuries and whose accomplishments
and legacy were the measuring standards for greatness in antiquity. The Macedonian
era from Philip II until the arrival of the Romans should not be ascribed
to any other people but to the legendary Macedonians.
Who were the ancient Macedonians? They were who they said they were—Macedonians.
The question about the ethnicity of the ancient
Macedonians has its roots in the modern political thinking and as phenomena it
stands beyond the scope and the sequence of the ancients. Ancient and modern
biographers and chroniclers alike have reported so many pertinent episodes from
the life of the ancients that our convictions not only became strengthened and
enlarged, but our fate in the modern revisionist scholarship has become invigorating
and purposeful. They have left us a wealth of incontrovertible evidence that
testifies to the existing ethnic differences between ancient Macedonians and
the ancient Greeks. Thus, with the evidence at hand we can safely venture to
state that the hypothesis for the Ancient Macedonians being Greeks must be rejected
due to the inadmissibility of the following postulates:
Ancient Macedonians:
(1) Did not, and could not "hire" mercenaries from their own kingdom
of Macedon.
(2) Did not have "allies" from their own kingdom of Macedon.
(3) Did not raze cities to the ground from their own kingdom of Macedon.
(4) Did not sell the inhabitants of their own cities as slaves.
(5) Did not pillage and burn the crops in their own countryside.
(6) Did not station garrisons in their own Macedonian kingdom.
(7) Could not have been asked by their own people to evacuate their country.
(8) Were not hated and cursed by their own populace.
(9) Did not destroy religious temples in their own kingdom of Macedon.
(10) Did not (could not) enslave their own country.
(11) Did not regard themselves as Greeks—looked down upon then with
contempt.
But they, the ancient Macedonian kings:
(1) Hired mercenaries from Greece.
(2) Used the Greeks as allies.
(3) Razed Greek cities to the ground.
(4) Sold the Greek inhabitants as slaves.
(5) Pillaged and burnt Greek cities and countryside.
(6) Garrisoned Greek cities—a sure sign of servitude.
(7) Were asked to evacuate from the whole of Greece.
(8) Were hated and cursed by the Greeks.
(9) Destroyed Greek religious temples and monuments.
(10) Enslaved the Greeks.
(11)Were not regarded as Hellenes—were called barbarians.
When assessing the relationship between Macedon and Hellas one ought to bear
in mind
the following:
(a) No backward state can achieve such a commanding
supremacy over so many peoples. We do not find any Macedonian moving to settle
down in any of the Greek city-states; quite the contrary, the traffic moved in
the opposite direction.
(b) Ancient Macedonians never once acted on behalf
of the Greek city states,
or for the cause of Hellenism. There is nothing in the literature to even
remotely suggest, that they ever indulged themselves to safeguard the holy
soil of Hellas, or fight to defend the interests of Hellas.
(c) If Ancient Macedonians were Greeks, or if
the Macedonian conquest of Asia was a Greek conquest, or if in fact the Macedonian
Empire was a Greek Empire, then Egypt would not have been a monarchy, and
(d) Ethnically the ancient Macedonians were what
they so vehemently displayed and said
they were—Macedonians. There is no need for further elaboration.
Here the PDF version
http://www.file-upload.net/download-251358/Conclusion.pdf.html
Posted by Dimko-Piperkata
Stories
From Vinozito's web page:
http://www.florina.org/html/2000/2000_minority_language/2000_minority_language.html
WHO SAYS THERE ARE NO MINORITY LANGUAGES
IN GREECE?
It is widely known that Greece refuses to acknowledge
the existence of national minorities and minority languages. Similarly, in the
Greek census of 1961, 1971, 1981 and 1991 any mention of one's mother tongue
is absent. This is not by chance but, rather, a deliberate policy of the Greek
government. In the earlier census of 1940 and 1951 one can find such declarations
as "Slavic" language. Whereas, in the census of 1928 one can find a
language declaration of "Slav Macedonian."
However, in the census of 1920, immediately after
Greece's acquisition of the "New Territories" the government of the
day offers some revealing information. In the census of 19 December, 1920, the
official Greek census form had a separate area asking: "what is your mother
tongue? What is the language you speak at home? If your mother tongue is not
Greek do you understand Greek? This census document can be found in the book
by M. Houliarakis (Geografiki, dioikitiki kai plithismiaki ekseliksi tis Ellados
tom G' page 363)
The data obtained from the census of 1920 offers
great detail about the population to the point of distinguishing between deaf
males and deaf females. It also includes the data on language and mother tongue.
Unfortunately, the census information relating
to the population of the "New Territories" was never made public. This
information preceded the exchanges of Christian and Muslim populations between
Turkey and Greece or the so-called "voluntary" population exchanges
between Greece and Bulgaria.
At that time Greece only published the results
from the geographic area of "old Greece" (Sterea, Evoia, Thessalia,
Arta, Ionian Islands, Cyclades, Peloponese...). Five volumes containing census
data from the "New Territories," which included information on religion
and language, were prohibited from being made public.
In the archives of the Census Council or the General
Archives of the Greek state we shall not find census data on the northern territories
(the new territories of Macedonia and Western Thrace) for the census period of
1920.
However, page 182 of the volume of census data
for 1920 (published in 1929) for the area of Trikala (in Thessaly and Arta just
south of the new territories) the following linguistic categories are reported
for mother tongue:
Greek, Spanish, Romi, Koutsovlach, Albanian, Bulgarian,
Serbian and 37 individuals from Trikala who declared their mother tongue as Macedonian.
http://www.florina.org/html/2000/2000_minority_language/2000_popis2.html
This is official census data published by the
Greek government wherein, not only is the Macedonian language documented by the
census authority but it is rightly distinguished from Bulgarian and Serbian.
One can now appreciate why the 1920 census results
for the "New Territories" have gone missing.
We would like to thank Mr. Dimitrios Lithoksoou
for uncovering this data, which we published in Volume 5 of our magazine, Nova
Zora (New Dawn). Mr. Lithoksoou has his own Web site with several pages of interest
to the Macedonians of Greece.
Posted by Filip M
Words
ANCIENT MACEDONIAN KINGS
Names in near sequential order of (some other) Ancient Macedonian Kings in:
Europe (Ancient Macedonia proper)
Coinus => Coi-n-us => Coi > blood line, n > na/of, us > Zeus
=> "blood line of Zeus"
Chyrimasus => Chyr-i-ma-sus => Chyr>cyr>sir>zemja>soil/earth,
i>and, ma>my, sus>zeus.
"the earth and my Zeus"
Aero(pus) => A(l)e-ro => Ale>Iliy, ro>gave birth. "Iliy
gave birth (to Zeus)"
Alxtat(us) => Al-xt-at-(us) => Al > Iliy, x=z, t=d, zd > zeus's
=> atu > ata > "father" in Old Slavonic => "Iliy,
Zeus's father"
Amynta(s) => A> iliy, myn > my, ta(s) > ta > ata. "Iliy,
my father"
Orestes => Ore-ste-(s) => Ore>(g)ore/above, s-te>z-de>to-
zeus, "above, to (our god) Zeus"
Pausa(nius) => Pa-u-sa-(nius). p>b>v. s>z. Pau>(zhi)Vau>lives,
sa>za>zeus. "lives Zeus"
*Note: "Oleg"> a Russian (Slav) male name. g>k (ie. Olek),
k>g>z
Kassander => Gozzan-dar => Gozzan>Zeus's, dar>gift, "Zeus's
gift"
Antigonas => A-nti-go-(nus), A>and, nti>'na ti'/to you, go>zeus
=> "and to you Zeus" or A>Iliy. "Iliy (gives birth)
to you Zeus"
Demitrius => Dimitri => Di-mi-(tri), Di>Dzi>"to
Zeus", mi>my, "to my god Zeus".
*Any Macedonian will tell you what "Zhi mi" means! Eg. "Zhi
mi detsata" > "I swear (to god) on my children."
Lysimachus => Ly-si-ma-(chus), Ly>Iliy, si>zi>zeus, ma>my. "Iliy
and Zeus, my"
*Antogo(nus) => same as Antigonus except: nto>'na toa'/to that. "and
to that god (Zeus)" or A>Iliy. "Iliy, (gave birth) to that god
(Zeus)"
Andriscus (Pretender) => A-nd-ri-s(cus), A>Iliy, nd>'nad'/to,
ri>rod/gave birth, s>zeus.
"Iliy gave birth to Zeus"
Egypt:
Kleopat(ra) => Gleo-vod, Gleo>"Zh(iv)(e)leo">the
'life giving' Iliy, vod>lead.=> 'The 'life giving' Iliy will lead.
Asia:
Seleu(cus) => Ze-leu> Ze> Zh(iv)e/the life giving, leu> Iliy. "the
'life giving' Iliy"
Antiochus => A>and, nti>to you, o>'oh', chus>Zeus => "and
to you 'oh' Zeus" or A>"Iliy". "Iliy (gave brth) to
you, oh Zeus".
Bactria/India:
Diodo(tus) =>D>z. Dio>Zi(ve)o>lives, do>zo>zeus> "lives
Zeus"
Euthyde(mus) => th>v. y>i. "(zh)Eu-vi-ze". >(zh)iv-eu-ze. >zhiveu/lives,
ze/zeus. "lives Zeus".
Helio(cles) => h>x>z. Zelio. He>Ze>Zh(iv)e/the life
giving Iliy, lio>Iliy. "the 'life giving' Iliy"
Note: "Helio" and "Seleu" have the exact meaning. Seleu
is original. Helio is an offshoot of Seleu. However, at a later date the
Ancient Macedonians adopted the international Mediterranean Koine language
(which is reflected in some of their names!)
By ZAC I -THE FIRST (Australia)
Book Reviews
Since no one sent us a book review, I will take this opportunity to shamelessly promote my own books which can be found at www.oshchima.com
Also, a friend of mine wants to translate my History book “History of the Macedonian People” from English to Macedonian and is looking for sponsors. If he succeeds in getting the necessary funding, I will donate the book for free, for the Macedonian cause.
Risto
Poetry
MAKNEWS
maknews maknews
where have you been
a Macedonian Dimou
have you seen
as I said sadly
in my post before
we still cannot walk
on our Macedonian shore
Greeks, Serbs, Bulgars
help me please
must we be only
what our neighbours deem
what dear friends
we undoubtedly are
is simply children
of MAKEDONIA
By Osiris
From the Archives
The Psychology of Hellenization - How Macedonia is made Greek
By Risto Stefov
I have often talked about what happened to Macedonians who were evicted, had their property confiscated, had been murdered, had their names changed and so on but rarely have I spoken of those who remained in Greek occupied Macedonia and submitted to Greek will.
This is a composite story of several personalities who lived in post Greek Civil War Greece and have had common experiences under Greek rule in Greek occupied Macedonia.
While Greece was occupied by Italy and Germany and in periods during the Greek Civil War, many Macedonians in Greece gained enough courage to express their Macedonian sentiments in public and in front to witnesses. When the wars were over many left Greece as refugees and settled in other parts of the world, mostly in Canada, the USA, Australia and the Republic of Macedonia. The rest who thought they had nothing to fear remained at home. Unfortunately as much as we hate to admit, as people we are all connected in some way or form. Those who remained, even though they themselves committed no harm, in some ways indirectly had helped those who allegedly did. They were the brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, uncles, aunts and cousins of those who had fought for the “wrong” side. As a result some spent their youth in Greek prison camps, the rest in their villages wondering day by day what would happen to them. Was someone going to rat them out and what fate was in store for them? Those who had relatives who fought for the wrong side knew they were in deep trouble and spent their days wondering if one day the police would come for them. Many that were in prison after being released were further intimidated with daily interrogations about their own and their neighbours’ activities.
Some of these people no longer live in Greece and one would imagine that they have nothing to fear. Unfortunately that is not true. Their experiences cannot easily be erased and their behaviour sometimes defies logic. There are pent up emotions in these folks that no sane person can imagine. Even after more that half a century, they still find it too painful to talk about it. I am not just talking about those abused, I am talking about their mothers, wives, brothers and sisters. It is a terrible way to live not knowing what will happen to a loved one. “Thank God he is okay this time, they only wanted to know something about someone”, but what about the next time, the next time the police knock on the door?
I have no statistics or names to give you, only stories, stories of those who prefer to be anonymous and remain silent. Half a century later, they have a hard time speaking. It’s too painful and even shameful. Most blame themselves for foolishly believing that they could be Macedonians without consequences. “What did we ever do to deserve this? Why is God punishing us?” They know they have done nothing wrong and deep down in their hearts they know their cause is noble yet they blame themselves for their predicaments. “What kind of future will our children have? It’s best the children know nothing about this, at least they will be free and will not have to suffer. This is our fate and only ours for being foolish”. Unfortunately telling their children nothing allowed their true enemies to poison them and turn them into the things they loathe the most. Not telling the children the truth is not the answer. The children must know the truth and must be taught to be smarter than the parents and recognize the true enemy among us.
Most blame the collaborators for doing this to them. But who are the collaborators and who are they collaborating with? Who created the conditions for people to snitch on their neighbours in order to gain some advantage or to save their own hides? One person told me the Greek authorities told him “it was not the authorities who wished him harm, it was his neighbours”. In other words by their own admission, “the Greek authorities were only doing their job following up on leads and enforcing the law”. What kind of a state would create such conditions where one could snitch on his neighbour without consequences to himself? What kind of a state would imprison a citizen without verifying the charges?
Even the Greeks themselves admit stacking the odds against those who they deemed undesirable. In other words, discrimination against a certain element of its citizens was overlooked and sometimes encouraged.
“They [the Greeks] came here poor and hungry and we fed them and even married them off to our most beautiful girls in the most prominent families and all they did is made our lives miserable.” She is talking about the Greek policemen who were sent to Greek occupied Macedonia from southern Greece. “They had their spies coming and going and when they were in a bad mood, we paid for it by being yelled at and humiliated in public. It was ‘kiramu’ this ‘kiramu’ that when we gave them free food and drink but we were ‘paleovulgari’ (filthy Bulgars) when it came to us needing something.”
Is life in Greece still the same as it was then or has it changed? A question I put to the woman. “Yes, life has changed. We accepted who we are and our position in our society and we are content with that. We never talk about those things. It is taboo to talk about them and give me pain every time I think about them. My children, I don’t know why I call them children, they are grown men as old as you, seem to be happy. They sometimes get ideas into their heads but I have to remind them how tragic things can turn at an instant”.
Do you have grandchildren and do they know about you and us? “Yes I have grandchildren and they are brought up not knowing. It’s better that way. Things are not going to change, if they do it’s usually for the worse so why put them through hell? What difference does it make anyway? As long as a person is happy why does it matter who they are? Right ?”
So, your grand children are brought up to believe they are Greeks? Do they speak our language? “They speak Greek but understand a few of our words. They call me ‘giagia’ most of the time except when they want something or need a favour from me then it’s ‘baba’. I guess they sense my happiness when they call me baba.”
Aren’t you worried that we will disappear in a few generations?
“Let me tell you boy, we will never disappear because they will never let us disappear. As long as they continue to put us down we will never disappear. We can pretend to be Greeks, more Greek than the Greeks but they know who we are and the moment we ask for something “bam” we are put in our place. This is why there are still people like us, cursed to wander like strangers on our own lands.”
So, why not stand up to them and fight back? “Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha what world do you live in you silly boy? Do you think I have forgotten what happened to us last time we did that? Now you are upsetting me, I don’t want to talk about it any more!”
I apologized for my rudeness as the conversation ended abruptly. Then there was a change of subject, as if the conversation never took place.
Feedback
From: Stan
Subject: Spitty tou pediou.
Dear Risto,
You are putting so much work to expose the Greek dirty policy against Macedonians but some topics are still not mentioned. For example:
1. SPITTY TOU PEDIOU (children’s home)
2. UNEPITHIMITY (UNDESIREABLE) EMIGRANTS
3. PHILIPOS' DRAGOUMIS MEMORANDUM
Are these topics unknown to you?
Since 1950 pre-school children of Macedonian origin are taken to Government day care centers to free their mothers so they can go to work. Why? And why only in Macedonia? This is a means of isolating children from their mothers and relatives to prevent them from learning to speak Macedonian. These facilities are not available in other parts of GREECE.
Undesirables were those people expelled by the Greek state from 1945 to 1980 under duress, forced to sign a paper indicating that they willingly left Greece and had no intention of returning. This way the Greek state could confiscate their properties and there was nothing legally they could do to recover it.
Mr. LITHOXOU exposed P. DRAGUMIS’s plan on how to exterminate MACEDONIANS, and pro-Macedonian GREEKS from the NORTHERN BORDERS OF GREECE.
I hope you find more details on these subjects.
In Australia, USA and Canada many of our countrymen have on their DOSSIERS sealed envelopes as character references supplied by the Greek authorities. You should make an effort to examine the envelopes belonging to your relatives.
Regards, MANOLI
Hello Risto
I am writing today to let of some steam, so to speak. In comparison to other people’s history, I have discovered that Macedonians have a colourful past, more colourful than that of most countries in the world today. Macedonia is one of the first states in Europe like Egypt is in the Middle East. At Macedonia’s peak of power Phillip II created the phalanx, a fighting force and military strategy to keep his enemies at bay. He created a professional army and instilled discipline in it. Respect, commitment and brotherhood were instilled in every soldier. If it wasn’t for Phillip’s dedication and genius, Alexander would not have achieved his great victories and conquest of the known world. Yes Alexander was a brilliant leader and a great mind but it is the commitment of his Macedonian army that won him world recognition as the greatest general known to man. As for the Greeks; to say that Greek culture was spread throughout Alexander’s empire is nonsense. Ancient Greeks called the Macedonians barbarians (non Greeks) and till this day the Greek chauvinistic views still appear in Greece. They claim Greece is 98.5% pure Greeks and the other 1.5 % is Muslim Greeks when clearly the modern Greek is an artificial creation, a marvel of fiction. Modern Greeks want to portray themselves as open minded and culturally akin to the ancients but they hardly understand what that means. Their behaviour hardly matches Alexander’s vision of fusing cultures together and creating a multicultural world 2,400 years ago (10,000 Macedonian men and 10,000 Persian women now imagine how many Macedonian decendents they are today?).
Where did those Macedonian soldiers and Persian wives go after the break up of Alexander’s empire? Some say they migrated north and spread as far north as Siberia. Some say they settled in many places like Russia, Slovenia, the Ukraine, Romania, Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia, Montenegro, etc. This was 2,400 years ago. Imagine how many descendants they must have today? Being soldiers of a powerful empire, imagine the influence they must have had among the natives on whose soil they settled?
It makes perfect sense for the descendants of a powerful empire to speak a dialect of the original language which can be no other but the Macedonian language, (a dialect implies that there once was a “mother” language which over time and space has diverged into many similar but characteristically different languages like today’s Macedonian and Croatian for example. Like today’s Greek and Cypriot but not like Greek and Macedonian because they are not similar at all.
To say that the Macedonian language was created when the so called Slavs invaded the Balkans around 600 AD is not only ridiculous, it’s a myth. What makes more sense is to say that the Macedonian language was taken to the various places Alexander conquered and created Macedonian cities which were then settled with Macedonians. Being culturally and militarily more powerful Macedonians left their mark and language which in time flourished and became widespread and today covers the vastness of Eastern Europe and Russia all the way to Siberia.
Greece on the other hand had no glorious past. No unity, no single state until 1830. Apart from a few statues and temples dedicated to Zeus which by the way they betrayed when they converted to Christianity, their past has been quite dull and uneventful. They should be grateful to Britain and France for reanimating the Olympics and falsely dedicating them to the Greeks. Olympus is in Macedonia is it not? How then can “Greek Olympics” be held on Macedonian soil? Greece should also be grateful to Britain and France for giving it the name “Greece” in 1821 and helping it to creatively falsify its history. Greek history is MYTHOLOGY.
Macedonia on the other hand was the first nation to embrace Christianity. Macedonia is a biblical nation many times mentioned in the bible. Why were Macedonians accepted as teachers of Christianity in all of Eastern Europe as far north as Siberia? Could it be because those people who invited them were also Macedonians? It makes sense doesn’t it?
Macedonia is very old; at least 2400 years old with symbols like the Macedonian sun, and rulers and queens like Cleopatra. Everyone it seems wants a piece of Macedonia’s history and land. Why? Greece and Bulgaria are willing to go to great lengths to conceal the truth, but a lot of cracks are starting to appear. They want Macedonia for its lands, its glory and its long history. We all know Macedonia does not belong to them; they are mere thieves who sooner or later will be discovered and caught. Macedonia’s break up and the creation of an Albanian state was a western plot, a power play to stop Russia from expanding its westward influence. A country torn apart, its people punished, displaced made to feel inferior and feel like aliens on their own lands and for what, for a game of chess?
Thank you for this digest and god bless.
By Vasil from oz
IMPOSTOR ORGANIZATIONS
RE: The Letter Of Complaint To Yahoo Travel (Regarding
Macedonia's Constitutional Name) By The Various "Hellenized" Non-Greek
Organizations And Associated Anti-Macedonian Impostor Organizations. (From: 'Not
Another BIG Greek Lie', The Macedonian Digest, Edition 15)
STOP YOUR WHINING AND GET OVER IT!!! What the "Hellenized" non-Greek
people throughout the world need to get through their thick heads is that the
United States of America in late November 2004 (rightly and) officially recognized
The Republic of Macedonia under its constitutional name!!! Furthermore, the Deputy
Spokesperson of The US Department of State Mr. Tom Casey recently stated: "We
recognize Macedonia, the country, by its constitutional name. The US government
does not recognize any other sub-national groups like that, as far as I know"!!!
Many other countries do likewise as well.
I am not going to go into the multitude of historical
reasons and facts as to justify why the US government reached its decision.
As mentioned, apart from the "Hellenized" non-Greek
organizations throughout the world, there are also (would you believe) associated
anti-Macedonian Impostor Organizations. The Pan-Macedonian Association of the
USA (not to mention other ones throughout the world) is one such organization!
This is a "Hellenized" non-Greek taxpayer
funded organization supported by the "Hellenized" non-Greek government!
They are literally importing their propaganda from modern, "Hellenized",
artificial Greece and are trying to 'falsely' create more than one Macedonia!!!
They are trying to undermine the notion of a specific Macedonian ethnicity!
Its’ a bogus distinction to talk about Macedonians
from The Republic of Macedonia and Macedonians from the Greek occupied part of
Macedonia and those from Bulgarian, Albanian and Serbia-Kosovan occupied Macedonian
lands! THEY ARE THE SAME PEOPLE!!! (EXCLUDING THE COLONISTS!) They're a divided
people and they've been divided by borders since 1913 by evil propaganda!
The question which must be asked is (and answered):
If the US government has officially recognized The Republic of Macedonia by its
constitutional name (i.e. "as Macedonia), along with approximately 114 other
countries, and Mr. Casey said what he said, then what credibility and justification
does the Anti-Macedonian, Impostor 'Pan Macedonian Organization' throughout the
world have in (continuing and) conducting its dodgy business?!
They should cease their operations and shut up
shop immediately before they further embarrass and humiliate not only themselves,
but also the modern "Hellenized" artificial state of Greece!
By Struja
FEEDBACK
RE: The repulsive e-mail from Paris De Angelo
De Angelo said: "Go F*ck yourself you Slavic
piece of trash! You are nothing but a Slav with a severe inferiority complex
towards Greeks!"
Here is my reply: This type of response
sums up the attitude of the "Hellenized" non-Greek people throughout
the world. People who resort to using offensive and abusive language like this
individual lack the basis for their arguments. His comments don't have any substance
at all.
His claim that "'Macedonia' is, was, and
always will be 'Greek'" is vague. A part of Macedonia, 51% of its geographical
territory, along with its population, illegally fell within the borders of (the
modern, artificial state of) Greece for the first time in history in 1913.
Ancient, 'purely' proto-Slavic Macedonia was not
part of the 'hybrid', dialect-Koine speaking (independent of each other) Ancient
City States either!
The modern, artificial state of Greece is not
the successor, and has nothing to do with the former Ancient City States, nor
their people! The Ancient (independent of each other) City States, in reality,
were not "Ancient Greece"!!! These people did not call themselves "Greeks"!!!
ANCIENT GREECE/GREEK HISTORY SPANS BACK TO ABOUT THE 1830's AD!!!
The Republic of Macedonia will, in the near future,
become a member of both NATO and the EU. Borders won't matter. Greek, Bulgarian,
Albanian, etc, occupied territories will once again be re-united with The Republic
of Macedonia in a EU and NATO scheme of things.
It is "you" "Hellenized" non-Greeks
who feel a severe inferiority complex towards the Macedonians! In reality you
know the truth, but don't want to admit it! "The Ancient Macedonians conquered
the Ancient City States (NOT ANCIENT GREECE), the Persian Empire, etc, and subsequently
established the Macedonian Empire!" CAN YOU ACCEPT THAT!!! THE TRUTH IS
THAT GREECE DID NOT HAVE AN EMPIRE!!!
The truth is out and Greece will be made accountable!
Greece too will not be allowed to further take other peoples' lands which don't
belong to it and falsify their, and Greece's own history! Today's Great Powers
(hopefully) won't allow it! Greece too is petrified of the Turkish military might,
which also has Greece in check from the east!
By Vasko
E-mail(s) of the Month
From: Alex Silva de Oliveira Makrygiannis olympi76@hotmail.com
Subject: I don't think so!
You are the biggest fool I've heard of EVER!
HAHAHAHA. You have no history, no true identity, NOTHING to be proud of,
so what’s your solution to that? Trying to steal another country’s
PROUD history! People laugh when you send your propaganda, EVERYONE knows
that Alexander is Greek, even your ministers have admitted it! We have proofs!
What do you got? NOTHING!
The bottom is reached, now you try to steal the
Iliad-Homeros and Achileas, the biggest joke ever!
Megalo Alexandro ise ellines!
Hellas SAGAPO!
From: Paris De Angelo parisdeangelo@hotmail.com
Subject: Just get over it!!
MACEDONIA WAS, IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE GREEK!!
All you people are is a bunch of goat herders, keeping goats for your Bulgarian
masters. You have nothing to do with the Ancient Greek Macedonians, and what's
even worse is that you know this is true. You people have No history and
No identity and thus try to steal our glorious history to create an identity
for you to try and justify claims on Greek territory!! Wake up idiot it's
NEVER EVER going to happen!! Spread your propaganda as much as you like because
the scholars and archaeologists of the world know the truth!!
From: Peter Papas <peterpapas76@hotmail.com>
Subject: Altering history
You are pretty good in altering history to suite your needs. First of all you don’t have a history you are not Greek so therefore can’t be Macedonian. Why do you deny your Bulgarian ancestry? Are you that embarrassed? I dare you to come to GreekRealm.com and publish your lies here. All ancient history books and modern historians even TV like the movie Alexander, the history channel on Alexander the great know and say that Macedonian people were Greek people and still are.
Quotable Quotes
“Constructing an identity is an art form in Greece”. (Paul)
“Why don't you focus on yourself (Greek), why are you focusing on the Macedonians? Because for each action there is a reaction, and everybody can play the same game, so, your people start to dig into my history, my name, my culture, I will do the same with yours and pick out all the inconsistencies, because there are plenty for all Balkan nations. The funny thing is, it is you who is on a Macedonian forum, it is you Serbs, Greeks and Bulgars who know more about our history than you do about your own. It is time to turn the table, none of you are perfect, far from it, each nation has its flaws and 99% of the time Greeks on this forum focus on ours, so I am merely leveling the playing field.” (Soldier of Macedon)
“As for being called a Slav I couldn’t give a f@#k what a Greek calls me anymore. It is indicative of his or her racist and abusive attitude. Macedonians will never change the Greek mind, not this generation, some Greeks are beyond redemption, maybe one day the time will come, maybe in a few hundred years?” (Osiris)
“To impose the false and alien fabrication of colonially forged ‘History’, the Greek state imposed a bogus-historical dogma for the needs of which the Macedonians were Greeks! It is as simple as that! If Zimbabweans lived at the place of Macedonians, the Zimbabweans would certainly ‘be’ Greek! We heard the nationalistic hysteria of those who were screaming in 1990 – 91 ‘Macedonia is Greece’. Quite unfortunately for them, Demosthenes is a far more authoritative source than their chauvinistic fever; we will always opt for Demosthenes when it comes to an evaluation of who is Greek and who is not. And Macedonians of all times were never Greek.” (By Dr. Muhammad Shamsaddin Megalommatis) Posted by Cannon.
Question/Answers for the Readers
Questions anyone?
Humour
A large woman, wearing a sleeveless sun dress,
walked into a Bar in Dublin.
She raised her right arm, revealing a huge, hairy armpit as she pointed to
all the people sitting at the bar and asked, "What man here will buy
a lady a drink?"
The bar went silent as the patrons tried to ignore
her. But down at the end of the bar, an owl-eyed drunk slammed his
hand down on the counter and bellowed, "Give the ballerina a drink!" The
bartender poured the drink and the woman chugged it down.
She turned to the patrons and again pointed around
at all of them, revealing the same hairy armpit, and asked, "What man here
will buy a lady a drink?"
Once again, the same little drunk slapped his
money down on the bar and said, "Give the ballerina another drink!"
The bartender approached the little drunk and
said, "Tell me Paddy, it's your business if you want to buy the lady a drink,
but why do you keep calling her the ballerina?"
The drunk replied, "Any woman who can lift
her leg that high has got to be a ballerina".....
Posted by John G.
A wealthy man was having an affair with an Italian woman for several years. One night, during one of their rendezvous, she confided in him that she was pregnant. Not wanting to ruin his reputation or his marriage, he paid her a large sum of money if she would go to Italy to secretly have the child. If she stayed in Italy to raise the child, he would also provide child support until the child turned eighteen. She agreed, but asked how he would know when the baby was born.
To keep it discrete, he told her to simply mail him a post card, and write "Spaghetti" on the back. He would then arrange for child support payments to begin.
One day, about nine months later, he came home to his confused wife. "Honey," she said, "you received a very strange post card today." "Oh, just give it to me and I'll explain it," he said.
The wife obeyed, and watched as her husband read the card, turned white, and fainted.
On the card was written: "Spaghetti, Spaghetti, Spaghetti. Two with meatballs, one without."
Posted by Imzeus
Welcome to the Dialectal Corner
Sorry, we had no postings for this corner. For the next Digest, please don’t be shy, send us your story while you brush-up on your dialect.
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