The Macedonian Digest

“From the readers for the readers”

Edition 3 – March 2006

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Issues

MACEDONIA IS MACEDONIA, PERIOD!

There is no "our" Greece. Greece is Greece and Macedonia is Macedonia, what you ask or think will happen will not, because it is historically unsound. It is absurd; it hasn't happened in the past and will not happen in the future. We will not change our name! It is not in our custom to change names. If modern Greeks are uncomfortable, too bad, you change your name.

We are the Macedonians from time immemorial, why do WE have to change our name? The majority of the population in your Macedonia is Turkish Christian. It is absurd to call Turkish people Macedonian 90 years later after settling them in Macedonia. You can lie about this to people that don't know anything about Macedonia, but you can’t lie to the people on this forum.

That history, which you claim to be yours, is an insult to me and to the intelligence of the people on this forum. Your history is the history which the Turkish Christians brought with them from Turkey. The history which you claim to be yours is our history, and this division that the western countries did to Macedonia is part of Macedonia's history, people have bled for an independent Macedonia, Are you now implying that they have died for nothing?

Macedonia is Macedonia there are no words before it or after it, Period!

By Agema

NOW THE NAMES “GREECE” AND “GREEK” ARE A DIFFERENT MATTER

The very term “Greece” and “Greeks” is in question. What does one mean by it? The words “Greece” and “Greeks” did not exist in ancient times. As a State and as a Nation “Greece” and “Greeks” did not exist. There was never a single nation or single state but more or less a geographical and social term.

Modern “Greece” and “Greeks” are an artificial creation, made into a nation-state to exploit the ancient heritage. Right from its inception, Greece was aligned to the ancient City States to take advantage of the ancient accomplishments. Greece was never a single state or a single nation until the 19^th century.

By Slovak

WHAT? MACEDONIANS ARE SLAVS?

The term “Slav” refers to the language spoken by a particular group of people. The term “Slav” existed before national consciousness came into being and is therefore a broad, nationally undifferentiated generic term that tries to describe “a language”.

The people who spoke “Slav” were called the “Slavonic race”.

Ancient Macedonians WERE non-Greek speakers, they spoke a native language.

Translations of ancient writing can be made in the Greek language and in the “Slav” language, proving THEY BOTH EXISTED at a time when it was said they did not exist.

Why is this fact denied? Does it serve some “other” agenda? I believe that it does.

It is therefore NOT extreme or WRONG for me to support the view that the Ancient Macedonians, seen as “Barbarians” (foreigners) by the Greeks, were Slavonic people.

Why do modern Greeks deny the POSSIBILITY that “Slav” speaking people, besides Greeks, as also having an ancient history that is at least as old as the Greek's ancient history, existed?

Why do YOU [Greeks], discriminate against me [also a Greek] for questioning the “official Greek position”?

If you are Greek as you think, then where are you exhibiting the “Greek” values and ideals such as democracy, freedom of thought, etc., remember? The stuff that made ancient Greece great; once upon a time?

Why do people like you interfere with my rights to my love of freedom of expression, pursuit for truth, and independent thinking, just because you disagree with it?

What or who gives YOU the right to judge me?

I disagree with you, but do you see me jumping in to tell you who and what you are?

Is this what it means to be a Greek, in our modern world? If it is, it is so very mediocre!

By Katerina

DELUDED BY ILUSIONS OF GRANDURE

What IS unfortunate is the inward attitude you people [some Greeks on the maknews.com forum] have about your place in the world and how much you matter. There is no other country in the world like yours [Greece], and that's not a compliment. You sat there and dissected half the comments I made using half-assed rebuttals, and you left out the other half simply because you had no rebuttals. I guess you did your best.

So, say what you want but the rest of the world can see the real relationship between Cyprus and Greece. You say that Cypriots consider themselves to be Greek in origin. Please tell me exactly how can a person be Cypriot AND Greek? Or Macedonian AND Greek? Or Thracian AND Greek? You simply must understand that the influence of ancient "Greece" is not enough to warrant you taking credit for other people's achievements. If you can't understand that, then you must also think that most of the people in the western world today are English. Or maybe American.

It does not take great intelligence to see exactly how ridiculous your claims are, especially your ideas that almost every SEPERATE group of ancient people in the Balkans were Greek. I must admit that for the past 100 to 150 years, you Greeks have been very successful at twisting truths and taking credit for other people's accomplishments. But just wait and see.

It's hardly your own fault for thinking the way you do because it is how you have been brought up by governments and educational systems, and until that changes, you'll continue to have this idea of yourselves and the world around you. But for such an "open-minded" and "free" society, Greece is anything but that. My buddies on here have already ripped on the (delusional) ethic purity you people declare exists in your country, so I won't even start.

By Makedonija e Vecna

Opinions

A DEMAND

Greece, as a nation, as an entity, as a people, as a culture, as a spirit must show courage and admit its past mistakes and its true history so that we may all become brothers. Until then, it is unfortunately Akritas and his buddies (extreme nationalists) who will define Hellas and not you the true Greeks.

By Osiris

A MATTER OF FACT

The fact that you [Greeks] call us the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia means that you recognize that in the past, we were known as the Republic of Macedonia attached to Yugoslavia. Don't embarrass yourselves any further with these inverted commas you're going to give me a stitch from laughing so hard.

By MKD

DID THE GREEKS REALLY INVENT GEOMETRY? FACT OR FABLE?

Many Greeks and philhellenes have told me that they believe that the Greeks INVENTED Geometry. Since you [Akritas, a maknews.com forum member defending the Greek position] believe that you are more informed than most, give the impression that you disagree but at the same time you also agree. By saying that Euclid (a Greek) first expressed geometry by “speaking” about it, or “inquiring” about it, as to “why it is this way”, Greeks were the first to think the concept of geometry. We know this because it has been written as such in many books. The reality is that other ancient people have also used complex conceptualized thinking, such as geometry and ALSO SPOKE A LANGUAGE. How do we know they didn't speak about it and explain it to others while they worked together to build geometric structures. How do we know it was not these people that invented it and taught it to others amongst themselves? Does this not amount to “inquiry”?

By attributing this claim to Greeks only, you create a certain perception that many have and do infer that Greeks “invented” geometry. In their ignorance many don't ask the right questions or think deeper. Most people are too lazy to do that, and many Greeks unchallenged feel like they contributed everything of worth that is known to modern civilization, therefore what other conclusion in regards to geometry do you think most average thinkers will reach?

Honestly consider this, please! My point is simply this; ancient Greeks, by whatever definition achieved and contributed a lot of wonderful things to our world that we Greeks can definitely be proud of, but please understand that we do tend to do this, to THE DETRIMENT of “other ancient people”, whose own input and history is UNDERSTATED or INVISIBLE.

By Katerina

SO GREEKS “INVENTED” GEOMETRY HEY?

Here is exactly why our historical understanding, and “history” itself, cannot possibly be “set in stone” and accepted as “concrete fact”. It can only be an approximation at best, based on the best understanding we have of our world at any given point in time.

Even if one argues that Greeks wrote down and organized interpretations of geometry, findings like this negate claims that they actually “invented” something. All humans have an aptitude to be inventive. Finding such as this could mean that our understanding of the ancient world is limited at best. How did the so called “uncivilized” world live in the “natural” setting? Just because they didn’t write things down for us to find does not necessarily mean they were incapable of observing and understanding natural phenomena?

With the evidence we have we cannot even conclude that the Greeks “refined geometry”. By writing it down we only know for certain that they knew about it. The rest remains an open question.

If we give consideration that even more ancient civilizations such as the Egyptian and earlier ones existed and were spread throughout the world's continents, how do we know that the Greeks did not borrow from them? More information DOES and WILL come to light. Everyday as we look further our knowledge of the ancient and “mysterious” people of antiquity will grow. Their underestimated and overlooked contributions to the world as we know it today will inevitably change the history books, to reflect the greater accuracy in our expanding understanding of the world and of “man” himself.

Amazon Tribes Know Geometry

By Bjorn Carey, LiveScience Staff Writer, LiveScience.com Thu Jan 19, 3:00 PM ET

Taken in part From: http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20060119/sc_space/amazontribesknowgeometry

While high school freshmen sometimes struggle with parallelograms and the Pythagorean rule, people deep in the Amazon quickly grasp some basic concepts of geometry.

Although these indigenous tribes had never seen a protractor, compass, or even a ruler, a new study found they understood parallelism and right angles and can use distance, angles, and other relationships in maps to locate hidden objects.

The finding suggests all humans, regardless of language or schooling, possess a core set of geometrical intuitions.

"While geometrical concepts can be enriched by culture-specific devices like maps, or the terms of a natural language, underneath this variability lies a shared set of geometrical concepts," said study co-author Elizabeth Spelke of Harvard University. "Those concepts allow adults and children with no formal education, and minimal spatial language, to categorize geometrical forms and to use geometrical relationship to represent the surrounding spatial layout."

The study is detailed in the Jan. 20 issue of the journal Science.

By Katerina

WHAT IS GREEK TO YOU?

I can't find a “genuine Greek”. Not one single one. Not any group of people with a clearly defined and singular legacy that is “uniquely Greek”. No separate identity. Not in any modern sense. Not based on any current models of what it is to be a Greek. What is “unique” about “Greek” and that sets it apart from anything else is its diversity. This is one thing always left out. To be “Greek” and “unique” may just mean to be a matrix of various races and cultures. A bit of Albanian, a bit of Turk, a bit of Vlach, a bit of Macedonian. Unless one found something “ancient Greek” in these cultures, can we maybe say that “modern Greeks” might have something of “ancient Greece” in them? But the ancient Illyrians, Macedonians and Thracians used the Slavic language. So modern Greek claims to ancient Greece loses out there as well.

By Paul [aka Pelister]

Concerns

WHY IS GREECE AFRAID OF MACEDONIA?

This is a question often asked not just by ordinary people but also by statesmen and diplomats from various countries in the world.

When Greece which is ten times larger than the Republic of Macedonia, fully militarized with a thriving economy, cries endlessly to the world not to recognize Macedonian and no to trust it because “Macedonia has territorial ambitions” on Greek territories, what is the world to think?

Why would such a tiny country have territorial ambitions against such a large country? But most importantly, why would such a large country fear this tiny country?

Honestly, this Greek phenomenon is puzzlement to a lot of people and defies logic.

To understand this, thing of Macedonia as a little boy and Greece as a big boy ten times its size. These two boys are playing in the yard and the big boy is constantly complaining that the little boy will attack him for his candy. Every time someone comes by, before the little boy has a chance to utter a single word, the big boy complains that the little boy will attack him and take away his candy! People are puzzled at the sight and can’t understand how this tiny boy is going to subdue this big boy and take away his candy? As curiosity mounts people ask questions “how can this tiny boy subdue that big boy and take away his candy”? But before the tiny boy has a chance to say anything, the big boy jumps in with the same claim “I don’t know how but he will attack me”!

What the big boy has failed to do is to tell everyone that he stole the candy from the little boy and that all the little boy wants is to have his candy back!

How can little boy Macedonia have territorial ambitions on big boy Greece? It doesn’t! It is big boy Greece screaming “territorial ambitions” to hide its own guilt. To hide the fact that “it” is guilty of “territorial ambition”. Territories it has illegally and by force taken away from the Macedonian people!

By Risto Stefov

IS THE MACEDONIAN LANGUAGE LOOSING GROUND?

I can definitely see how that is happing in Greece and in the Diaspora. It is very sad.

You just have to look at 1st generation Macedonians or even Greeks in western countries to realize this.

My English is MUCH better than my Macedonian, and I am just a 1st generation Australian. Since I am educated in English, and I can speak English at home, it is natural that my English skills are better than my Macedonian skills.

If you compare this to the situation of Macedonians in Greece, they too are educated in Greek, their parents also speak Greek. Since speaking Macedonian is prohibited, if not by the law [now days] then by society, it is difficult to learn good Macedonian in Greece.

Of course their Greek language skills will be better then their Macedonian ones since the base for this lies in the educational system.

In my case in Australia, I would not be expected to go to Macedonian school everyday, but there are other opportunities like Macedonian classes held on Saturdays and fully paid by the Australian Government (along with all other community languages), something which Greece does not do.

Macedonian language education SHOULD be/have been provided by the Greek State because the Macedonians did not migrate into Greece, this is their traditional home. It is a terrible shame that Greece tried to wipe out an entire culture through its educational system.

I think this should be a major point for the Macedonians in Greece, to reintroduce Macedonian (or a "Slavic" dialect of one of the languages spoken) to Aegean Macedonia. It does not matter what they call it for the time being, but it should be re-introduced now!

What do you guys think?

By MDK

KATERINA IN DEFENSE OF THE MACEDONIANS

A group of oppressed people are expected to welcome anybody, and much more so, somebody whom they view as a representative of their oppressors without any questions, with arms wide open, and in blind faith? What pompous arrogance!

Do you really view their “defensive responses” as racism?

You have just admitted that you're work was in fact designed to sabotage their cause, since it serves [anti-Macedonian] political agendas! You are very ambitious indeed!

What do you actually understand? If a white, Anglo-Saxon 'lawyer' walked amongst a group of [Aborigine] individuals and announced he was going to study them, told them not to worry, and then proceeded to ask them to justify being the indigenous people and 'prove' it by dissecting nationalistic viewpoints as opposed to personal ones, of what had been done to them and what they had lived through. How would that person be received?

Would the Aborigines then be the guilty ones of racism because they would be defensive, mistrusting, fearful, or hurt by this approach?

You see, I don't know how large your egos are, and how hard the Greek government works to feed your sense of self-importance, but you and others like you have completely lost the plot, where 'humanity' is concerned.

As a result, you can't understand or identify truth if it slapped you in the face because you are too deeply lost into your own delusion of grandeur to realize that you are anything more than a grain of sand in the grand scheme of life.

Take away your "Hellenic Organizations", and your constant praises, your funds and everything, then try going out completely on a limb, on your own and dare to stand up for what you believe to be morally right. THAT is my position!

You may end up a 'wonderful' academic, who speaks every language on this earth - except for the only language that truly matters - the language of the human heart.

It has been my experience, that if a person makes a blatant lie or two, he is capable and most likely to be lying about a lot more.

Was I wrong? No.

If you, or people like you think that I could honestly care what you think of me, because I stand alone expressing my voice and my opinions as I see them, you are all going to be so very disappointed. My value system is not like yours. My soul cannot be negotiated for sale. My own integrity and my own freedom is what is real to me, everything else is merely an illusion.

Please go ahead and represent us exactly as we all are: but don't limit our exposure to Greek and Bulgarian nationalist organizations. I dare you to show both our sides to the world and let IT have the chance to pass judgment on all of us.

If you are so damn righteous, what do you have to fear?

By Katerina

Katerina, thank you for standing up for us, we all love you.

DID YOU KNOW?

Macedonia is the only country in the world that borders with itself? Sad but true!

By Bosnian

IT’S QUALITY, NOT QUANTITY!

The Republic of Macedonia will soon be the first country in the world to have a completely wireless high speed internet network.

It’s not the size of your country that matters its how you use it!

By MKD

Choices

GREEK OR TURK, WHICH IS BETTER?

Zdravo everyone,

Interesting topic since the question seems to be interpreted as whether you prefer one occupier to another, but then again you can't really answer the question without showing some type of favouritism which comes from your own personal experiences with the two nationalities in question.

Being that I reside in a multicultural society where all minorities are free to practice their own culture and religion, I have been lucky to make good friends with a variety of different nationalities which include Serbs, Croats, and the two nationalities in question: Greek and Turkish. Now my friends from each of the nationalities I consider to be top guys and we have always had a pretty sweet time going out in town and getting pissed as we so often claim that each of our cultures can out drink the rest (but in reality we all know that were all just piss heads, but we are from the Balkans so I guess its just in our blood).

Anyway, although our social sphere tells us that we should hate one another, I respect them for who they are and in turn they respect me for who I am, a Macedonian, therefore we focus more on the similarities of our cultures rather then the differences, and the politics involved with our nationalities rarely get mentioned.

So really I can't say I prefer one over the other as to me we are all the same, if I was to make my judgment based on history well then, they are still both the same regardless of who did worse then the other, an occupier is an occupier and rest assured there will always be another occupier (its human nature, peace is really an intermission but an intermission worth working for). From what I remember we were occupiers once as well so it’s pretty useless getting p*ssed off with someone who occupied us when we have occupied them before.

Muslims and Christians, we all believe in one God don't we? We all believe in one God with the same basic morals but we take different roads to the same destination. It’s only when we get tied up in the dogma and politics that things start to get complicated.

I believe political leaders these days have no greater purpose other then managing their countries’ economies, so they feel they need to create a purpose in order to get the public to follow their ideals or make them think that one is better then the other. Regardless of who comes to power 90% of the time the majority of politicians will still do same things. So I believe it is the politicians who create this rift between nationalities, cultures and races, the people are merely pawns of government propaganda. It is precisely for that reason why I do not take up fights with ordinary everyday Greeks. I believe that they are like me, proud patriots, who believe in the common good for all. I see our fight being not with the people but with the governments in charge which want brothers to fight one another so that they can make profit for themselves while we the poor sheep are led to slaughter. Well, I guess it’s up to each individual to work out all this for themselves.

So Greek or Turk, if you give me respect I will give you respect in return. I am happy to fight by your side as friends.

P.S. Sorry for the essay but I've had a bad day at work and I just got back from the pub so don't take anything too literally, this is just my personal opinion that’s all. Zhiveli!!!

By Tomche Makedonche

RESPONSE TO TOMCHE

Hey Tomche momche,

You express some very interesting ideas. I agree with some, while I disagree with others.

I strongly agree with you about the common grounds, traits and bonds that do and can exist between our people. From my own experiences I can tell you now what the difference is between the worst Greek and the worst Macedonian. Nothing! Nothing at all!

Accepting each other unreservedly, as the people from the nationality we say we are, is crucial, like you say, and of utmost importance. Respect and dignity for one another at community level is of utmost importance. As for all the rest, it is up to the individual to qualify what kind of human being they choose to be. In so much, at least, we all have equal right.

The problem lies in the fact that without this idea being ratified politically, the perception will still remain localized and subject to the random whim of some groups and individuals.

Without creating a universal perception, some people will have their rights met, to nationally self-identify without discrimination, while many others will continue to have them denied, within the mainstream ideological political position we currently have (example, homogenous society vs multiculturalism, or pluralistic society.) While our commonalities are fundamental, it's our differences that must be respected, as they are what make us true to ourselves.

As a Greek, with limited understanding of the Macedonian experience, I would like to ask this question:

If the politics of our nationalities are not mentioned between friendly common people, so that even as friends amongst ourselves, our own awareness of one another is enhanced, then how will we people help each other by making the governments listen to us, in a united voice - as people from the Balkans?

I agree with your position on the governments being at fault, and responsible for feeding and profiting from the fight between our people, and that is why we must accept and support one another. But is this fighting between us also not fueled by the IGNORANCE OF OUR RESPECTIVE TRUTHS, and lack of empathy and understanding, between us, that the government also profits from and wants to perpetuate between us good people?

So how can we actually take the fight to the government, and away from our peoples?

By informing one another and raising our own awareness, we who vote for these governments CAN make the difference by learning to speak out against what we disapprove of, in the way government policies affect us, and to voice what RIGHTS or lack of justice, we want addressed.

The governments that do lead us by the nose can only continue to do so as long as we play their game of remaining silent about our nationalities and how their politics affect us.

Although the governments are responsible for the messes in this world we may forget that it is US common people who vote them in, therefore it is US common people who actually posses the power to really change things.

I think the first step towards this is TO MENTION our politics between our different nationalities and see what is moral and fair for ourselves so we can make our own judgments and decisions as people and not as politicians.

It is therefore the RESPONSIBILITY for all of our people from the Balkans to learn about and share our own truths and experiences; especially with our friends.

Being a 'proud patriot' is understandable, but that does not mean that we cannot be one, as well as freely question, criticize, and hold our politicians accountable, or at least have our voices heard by them and taken into account. Otherwise where are they taking OUR future?

By Katerina

TURK OR GREEK?

Would you allow your child to marry a Turk over a Greek?

The answer is that I would prefer my child (I am way too young to be thinking bout children, ha-ha) marry a Greek over a Turk only because our families belong to the Orthodox Religion. The underlying truth is that Macedonians and Greeks are very similar people.

There is only one issue that stands in the way of our friendship and that is politics. This political issue is created by politicians and not ordinary everyday people. Unfortunately the people’s way of thinking is very much influenced by politics and it starts with each country’s educational system. The biggest thing holding us back from becoming friends is the fear that Greece has created at both sides of the border. I am not just saying this because I adhere to the Macedonian argument; I am saying this because Greeks are taught to be afraid of Macedonians. They are told that one day Macedonians will rise up and become independent, thus “downsizing Greece”. This is precisely why Greeks deny the existence of Macedonians not just in Greece, but everywhere. Greeks, if you judge us by our recent history, you would see that this is not our style.

Once the name issue is resolved and the Macedonian Minority in Greece is recognized, I believe there is huge potential for friendship between Macedonians and Greeks.

After this happens, I will say that, in general, I will prefer Greeks over Turks.

By MDK

Free Advice

ON “GREEK-MACEDONIANS”

I understand what you are saying very clearly. You are correct, to a certain extent, to call yourselves “Greek-Macedonians” but you do not identify yourselves correctly. Yes, you can call yourselves “Greek-Macedonians”, much like Albanians from Macedonia can call themselves “Albanian-Macedonians”, “Bulgarian-Macedonians”, “Serb-Macedonians”, “Italian-Macedonians”, “Turkish-Macedonians”, etc. etc. There is no difference between you or anyone of these other types of people. You are a Greek feeling Macedonian or a Macedonian feeling Greek, much like the rest of these people are Albanian feeling Macedonian or Macedonian feeling Albanian - period. Do not misrepresent the matter at hand. I, on the other hand, am a Macedonian - period. I do not feel Albanian, Serb, Turk, Georgian, Greek, Italian etc, just Macedonian. So, there is ample distinction between you and me as you feel something other than only Macedonian where as I feel only Macedonian.

Listen people [Greeks], this is exclusively your issue and an issue for people who are believers like yourselves. The fact is, here, I am right. My ancestors from as far back as I can trace them, come from Macedonia - period. That’s it!

Read my words carefully - you DO have the right to be whatever you want, BUT, you DO NOT have the right to misrepresent yourselves in a manner that infringes upon my identity. Remember, it is YOU who are "Greek-Macedonians" and it is YOU who feels Greek, not me! I am a Macedonian - You are "Greek-Macedonians" because that is how YOU decided to identify yourselves. I didn’t choose who you are, you did. You could simply call yourselves Macedonian but NO, YOU don’t want to do that because YOU feel something other than just Macedonian. So, therefore, YOU are bringing this upon yourselves. It is your problem if you want to "distinguish" yourselves from Macedonians because you feel connected to another ethnic group. Do like you have been doing, like the rest of the people with mixed backgrounds like Russian-American, Irish-Italian etc., hence what you have been calling yourselves - Greek-Macedonians. I'm sorry if you feel bad about it but tough luck dudes.

By Mak Master

ANCIENT TRUTHS AND MODERN LIES

Demosthenes (384 BC–322 BC) is generally considered the greatest of the Attic orators, and thus the greatest of all Ancient Greek orators. His writings provide an insight into the life and culture of Athens of that time period. He is best-known for his Philippic Orations, urging the populace to rise up and defend their country against Philip II of Macedon, who was steadily gaining power and territory for the Macedonian state. During the reign of Philip's son Alexander, Demosthenes was quiet, but as soon as the young Macedonian king died in Babylon, Demosthenes once again stirred Greece to rebel. The Macedonians were expelled from Greece, but they returned with reinforcements and defeated the Greek army in what was known to be the "Lamian" or Hellenic War for freedom. All the Greek leaders were executed by the Macedonian general Antipater but Demosthenes took poison rather than face capture and punishment. Years later, when the Macedonians will again be expelled from Athens, the Greeks would erect a statue in honor of their hero. Its inscription read: "If thy strength had only been equal to thy purposes, Demosthenes, never would the Greeks have been ruled by a Macedonian Ares”

So if Demosthenes, the greatest ancient Greek orator was so anti-Macedonian labeling the Macedonians Barbarian as he couldn't understand what they spoke, then what would it be that would make you think otherwise?

Why did the ancient "Greeks" rise up in war against the Macedonians only to be defeated if they were one and the same people?

Considering that the peoples of the time were not "Greek" as "Greek" is a modern term, what was it that these ancients did that was so great that influenced the world so much in both ancient and modern times?

They borrowed their gods from the Egyptians, got their text from the Syrians and were ruled by the great and powerful Macedonians. Who exactly influenced whom here?

Do not speak of the ancients representing modern political terminology. At least give them their due respect and dignify them by referring to them by their proper names.

It is well and truly established that Koine was a generally spoken language not belonging to any one individual ethnic group of people. Finding artifacts with this script is not any testimony of its apparent "Greek-ness".

By Mikail

TAKE HEED – ANCIENT COINS MODERN LIES

Take a good look at the names written on ancient artifacts. Look at the letters and most importantly the language engraved on coins, on statues of deities and mythical heroes like Heracles fighting a lion, Hermes, Athena, Dionis, Apolo, etc. They all use the same letters but they are not all from the Hellenic nations. Many are from non-Hellenic nations, like Thracians, Paeonians and even Scythians (look at the coins and their description). They were COMMON deities and mythical heroes; not only Hellenic as some people would like to present the situation.

As for the Macedonian Philota who said "our language became obsolete through dealings with other peoples and the conquerors and the conquered must learn a foreign language".

Koine, or “Greek” as the modern Greeks like to call it, was a common language in Southeastern Europe much before Alexander III. Look at the coins; there are Paeonian and Thracian coins with “Greek” writing from the 5-th and 4-th centuries BC. This shows that one cannot use the language and pantheon argument to show that Macedonians were Hellenes. If the Macedonians were Hellenes because they spoke Koine and believed in the same gods, then by the power of these same arguments we have to conclude that Thracians, Paeonians and even Scythians were also Hellenes, which we all know were not Hellenes.

1. Those coins were minted by Thracian, Paeonian and Scythian kings and inscribed by using the so called “Greek” language. Neither the coins nor the nations were Greek. This means that “Greek” inscriptions on their own cannot be proof of “Greek ethnicity”. That is a fact that no reasonable person can deny.

2. Deities (Gods, Goddesses, Heroes, etc.) like Athena, Zeus, Apollo, Hermes, Dionis, Heracle fighting a lion, etc., on Thracian and Paeonian coins are common to everyone which means that they were worshipped not just by Hellenes but by many nations. The engraved deities on the various coins attest to that FACT.

3. The age of the coins is determined by the names of the kings on them and not by some arbitrary chemical analysis or other method. The periods during which those kings ruled are known so the dates are more or less accurate and not so much subject to statistical errors due to chemical test methods.

Coins minted by various kings over time are indisputable proof that ancient deities (religion) and the ancient language of communication were common to most Balkan peoples.

By Yanis

IS LAGUAGE REALLY PROOF OF ETHNICITY? THIS ONE IS FOR THE GREEKS!

In 1922 many of the Christian children from Asia Minor did not speak any of the European languages so the Greek Government taught them “modern Greek”.

Soon they did not only learn to speak Greek but also learned that they were the true Macedonians, descendants of Alexander the Great. Modern Greek is more than a language it is a Greek Government dream in which ethnicities can be manufactured at will. Yesterday’s Turkish children from Asia Minor are today’s “Greek-Macedonian”, a pure “Greek-Macedonian” ethnicity that descended from the ancient “Greek-Macedonians”.

By Frank

NOUVEAU HELLENE FEARS

In about a decade Macedonia will be an EU member. I can understand how Greeks might be nervous about that given that their "Greek-ness" is so new and their claims to Macedonian heritage are so transparently fake.

How does the argument go? The ancient Macedonians were Greek and only Greek! The new Christians imported into the New Territories from Asia Minor over the last eighty years have been trained to speak Greek, therefore the new Christians are the descendants of Alexander the Great and anybody who doesn't agree with that is accused of "stealing Greek heritage".

If I were a nouveau Hellene I too would spend enormous amounts of time and resources "marketing" my phony decadency claims to the world too. It's not easy living in a pure country surrounded by pure people. This Fascist approach didn't work for Herr Hitler and it may not pan out for you folks either.

In the near future Vardar Macedonia, Pirin Macedonia, Mala Prespa and Aegean Macedonia will be reunited. The artificial borders between them will fall. For the first time in a century we Macedonians will be together again.

Given these circumstances can you explain to me why a poor country of two million people would attack a militarily stronger nation of eleven million? To my mind your idea seems disconnected from reality.

By Maknews

History

ANCIENT MACEDONIAN CUSTOMS REVEALED

Ancient Macedonian Customs; taken from the works of Curtius Rufus

In capital trial cases the king conducts the trial as judge while the soldiers or commoners, in peace-time, act as the jury.

In capital trial cases, if found guilty, the accused is stoned to death. In capital trial cases, all family members of the guilty party are also executed.

The sons of the Macedonian nobility would begin their service to their country by accompanying the king as personal servants, guards (pages). In this way they gain a unique knowledge of Macedonian matters related to royalty and nobility.

As a symbol of betrothal, during a wedding ceremony a piece of bread is cut with a sword and then tasted both by the groom and the father of the bride.

When an area has been conquered, the enemy king’s tent or personal area is not entered or looted, instead the Macedonians assemble and wait for their king to approach, whereby they welcome the victorious king into the residence of the defeated enemy king.

Prior establishment of a new city or town, the king marks out the future circular boundary with barley-meal.

By Soldier of Macedon

DID YOU KNOW?

Dimitar Karatosho, born in Bersko, actively took part in the liberating attempts of Garibaldi, in Italy during 1859-61.

He came back to Macedonia with ideas of liberating the Macedonians. His ideas were unwelcome by some, and his efforts to organize a Macedonian uprising were cut short. He was thrown into prison by the Greek government, and later died in Belgrade.

In 1903, about 5000 Macedonian troops attacked the town of Kichevo, and captured it.

Near Kicevo, there is a village called Karbunica. This was the site of a bloody battle. About a 1000 Macedonians charged a Turkish position in this village. Instead of guns ''they used knives and bayonets''. The final toll after the victory was 30 rebels dead and over 100 Turkish soldiers killed.

The terrified Turks fled.

All we know is that the 'Demihisar' region was attacked by over 20,000 Turkish soldiers.

Source: Dr Krste Bitoski 'The Epic of Ilinden'.

By Paul

Stories

HARNASSING THE RAINBOW

If you can believe it, there was once a tribe of midgets that did not like the Rainbow!

“It’s too high up in the sky,” said one. “It’s too bright”, said another. “It is too dumb”, said a third, “how can Gawd waste so much colour in the sky, when all colours belong to us. We are the most colourful people on the face of the earth. Truth be told.”

Debating back and forth like would-be philosophers, without asking the questions that mattered, they decided on a plan. Yes. If (mark that word) they could throw a rope around the Rainbow they could pull it down! So they worked and plotted to make a long rope. They paid a lot of money to some lawyers who worked for nothing else, and had appointed some highly paid judges who loved working for them, to make some ropes to pull down the Rainbow. They tossed the rope into the air exactly where they intended it to go, and lo and behold, the Rainbow disappeared.

“ Ha ha”, they cheered in the government offices and in the streets where they had prepared the people to cheer as well. “The Rainbow has gone!” How they yelped and celebrated! They lit bonfires and made music and danced some very primitive dances, arm with arm, around the fire.

There celebrations were short lived. The very next day the Rainbow reappeared.

“We’ve not tried hard enough. We need chains not rope to bring down a Rainbow” the most severest critic exclaimed. So they scoured the city to find a blacksmith, and they did find an old man, Hephaistos, to forge a metal chain. “This will work”, opined the lawyers relishing their work, their money, and their smarts. They took the chain to the judges who gave their judgment before any trial was held, as they were paid to do, and concluded it was a ‘wonderful chain’. “Throw out the chain”, they whispered to the lawyers, “we can catch it…and catch the Rainbow” This was done very secretly so no one would know.

Out went the chain, encircling a lot of people, and they thought the Rainbow too.

For some days the Rainbow disappeared. “Ah, success” cheered the ‘wise men”, and the young party goers in the streets who had been given barrels of red wine. The wise men celebrated with buckets of ouzo with the lawyers and judges. They held a banquet in Athens, the Capital of Greece as it now is.

But as Life will have it, a few days later the Rainbow reappeared. Ami!

This really maddened the dwarfs as you can imagine.

A quick-mouthed hot-head with fist on high screamed, “Fire! Water can’t stand fire! Let’s burn the Rainbow out! If we are hot enough and can make a fire hot enough we can burn out the Rainbow!” So smart they thought they were that they lit a fire of such intensity, as hot as themselves, that they did indeed burn out the Rainbow and much else besides, injuring many.

Who can believe it? Within a few days once again the Rainbow reappeared. It was proving to be persistent! Where it got its strength from no one knew. It seemed to have some natural force of its own. It was madly frustrating!

The best dwarf minds gathered in Congress to discuss the problem of getting rid of the Rainbow. An Academic, a Scientist, spoke to the Congress and explained with diagrams on a Power Point that the Rainbow was caused by the sun…that the sun shone through the mist… that was needed so things could grow… and created a Rainbow. Filled with this knowledge and explanation, the solution was obvious.

If they could block out the Sun, the light, no Rainbow could ever appear. The scientist carefully explained that no one could ever, or should ever, block out the sun or the light, or humanity and all life would freeze to death. “Oh, but… if we could steal the symbol of the sun… and make people believe that we have the sun… that it is ours, then who could ever make a Rainbow?”

So they stole the symbol of the sun, gave it another name, showed it on a background of blue in a new way it had never appeared before, and waved it for everyone to see. The crowd cheered. Eager to be part of success, the Bishops and priests baptized the sun “VERGINA’. “VERGINA’, the crowd cheered the new name, eager to have a new sun. as who wouldn’t. Oh those were happy happy days.

But dammit! The multi coloured Rainbow again began to light up the sky on another day. And now it appeared even larger. It appeared not only over northern Greece, but over the whole of the Balkans. Not only over the Balkans but it was seen all over Europe. Later it was reported that it was seen over America, Canada. News came that it was even seen in Australia…and many other countries in between.

MORAL OF THE STORY: Don’t try to harness a Rainbow.

by Dedo Kire

This story is dedicated to our heroic Macedonian compatriots in Greece who have harnessed the power of the rainbow and are using it not only for the benefit of the Macedonians but also for the benefit of all the people of Greece.

Da Zhivee Vinozhito! Long live the Rainbow!

Book Reviews

I am sorry to say, we have no book reviews for this month’s issue of the Macedonian Digest because no-one sent us any. People, this is an opportunity for you to advertise your books for free. If you are shy about it because it’s your book, get a friend or a loyal reader to submit something. I know that there are a lot of good books out there that deserve recognition and some publicity. So, please do us a favour by doing yourself a favour, send us something.

The Macedonian Digest Editor

Poetry

Aegean Mother

Tell me mother, my Aegean mother,

Why do you always wear a black kerchief?

Why are you always dressed only in black?

Why does your face never smile?

Why do streams of cloudy tears pour from your eyes?

Do you grieve for your sons and daughters,

Or is it your lost hope for the Aegean that is killing you?

Tell me mother,

Your black kerchief, your black dress,

Blind my sight of you,

Your tears sink into my heart,

Set it aflame

And melt my body.

I have lost

Five children, sons and a daughter.

The first long ago,

Greek police exiled him to the island of Hios

For speaking his mother tongue,

From there he never returned alive.

The second, in a battle on Ivan Mountain

Against the Italians,

But down, he fell,

And I lost him too.

The third, the wildest of all,

Wounded in a street battle, was captured

By the cursed Germans, taken to Solun

And hung.

The other two were twins,

A boy and a girl, so dear to their mother,

In the civil war, on Gramos Mountain,

A bomb from the sky fell

Into the trench where they hid.

I lost all hope, all that was left,

How can I not grieve?

How can I not cry?

When I don’t even know

Where their five graves lie?

As long as the Vardar River barely flows,

Pirin Mountain drowns in tears.

For the hard struggles,

For the burning open wounds,

For the black graves of the poor Aegean,

As long as the Aegean chokes in blood,

Until then mother, Aegean mother,

Will mourn,

Will wear black.

But when the Aegean waters clear,

And a calm blue expands to the edges of the sea,

The forests of Pirin Mountain will begin to smile,

From the shade of it’s darkest core,

To the foothills freshly covered in dew.

The gushing Vardar River will make the fields blossom,

And the parched, dry valleys of the Aegean will finally bloom,

Only then will the mother, the Aegean mother,

No longer grieve and take off her black.

Then she will go to the Aegean,

And fly over the mountains.

Over the forests and the fields,

To find and to ask the old shepherds,

The tall pines, the highest hills,

The eagles, the wolves and the hungry foxes.

So they can tell her where to look, where to search,

Where to find the bones and the graves,

Of her dear children,

Of her poor dead sons and a daughter,

So she can honour them,

And she can kiss them,

And peacefully, calmly,

Die before them!

By Mihailo Karamidchiev

Blow, My Wind Of Love / The Train

Blow, my wind of love,

As the sun hides like a shy child

Behind the mountains

You kiss my face with anger

I fall into the faith of meditation,

So blow, my wild wind, blow,

Open the doors of love,

Bless Mother Nature for this creation.

The rocks paint this land

With brown - to - grey colors,

The birds sing and fly every morning

Like in a theater show,

The insects whisper the secret

Of their needs,

So blow, my wind of love, blow,

As the river like any life flows,

Blow, my wild wind,