The Macedonian Digest
“From the readers for the readers”
Edition 36 – December 2008
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Editor’s Notes
www.macedoniancommunity.com
The Macedonian Suggestion Box is now active. Please visit the site above
and offer your suggestions.
The Macedonian Suggestion Box!
Have you ever come up with an idea or suggestion for Macedonia but didn't
know who to suggest it to, or how? Now, you do! The Macedonian Suggestion Box
lets you announce your suggestion for Macedonia, whether it be for the Macedonian
Government or the Macedonian people in and outside of the Republic of Macedonia.
Whether your suggestion is a way out of the name dispute, a way forward
for the economy, a suggestion on healthcare or any other suggestion, big or small,
you can suggest it here and let others read it, comment on it and rate it!
All appropriate highly rated suggestions will be forwarded on to relevant
Organizations, Institutions and/or Governments. Remember to be as detailed as
you can!
The idea for the Macedonian Suggestion Box was born out of the Suggestions
forum here on www.maknews.com. I've built it into its own
unique site so that all the suggestions go into an accessible database and for
the good suggestions (ones that many people agree with and like and rate highly)
can be then easily (click of a button) sent on to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs
(if that's what the suggestion was related to) and so on.
The Macedonian Government has a project called "Day of Ideas" where
citizens can come forward and speak with the leaders of the nation and offer
their ideas and suggestions on just about anything and everything in Macedonia.
Unfortunately, the majority of Macedonians aren't able to attend such things,
nor can the Diaspora participate.
Being online and accessible to everyone, both inside and out of Macedonia,
the Macedonian Suggestion Box can become the extension to that project and I
hope to get as many from the Macedonian Government and Ministries involved as
well as many Macedonian organizations (NGO) in and out of Macedonia.
Posted by Rogi from www.maknews.com/forum
Feature Stories
Seven Macedonians prosecuted for the events at Lofi/Zabrdeny
Belgrade, Tuesday, 28 October 2008 by Georgios N. Papadakis
http://www.eurolang.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3111&Itemid=33&lang=en
The public prosecutor of Florina/Lerin has pressed charges against seven individuals who participated in the recent events at the village of Lofi/Zabrdeny in Northern Greece.
Among them were the four initially arrested on the scene of the unrest while the other three are also inhabitants of the village.
According to the public prosecutor, the accused obstructed public transport when they blocked tanks and other armoured vehicles of the Greek Army, initiated riots among the local population, and resisted violently when policemen tried to reopen the passage leading to an army exercise field in the vicinity of their homes. No date has been set yet for the trial, but it is likely that it will take place next year.
Protests in Lofi/Zabrdeny against the army exercises caught the public eye not only in Greece but also in the neighbouring Republic of Macedonia and internationally. The issue caused a public debate inside the Greek Parliament while Macedonian minority party EFA-Rainbow directly accused the Greek authorities of policies of discrimination.
The detention of four Macedonian journalists who were covering the events also led to protests by the Macedonian Government, the International Federation of Journalists and the International Press Institute-South East Europe Media Organization. In addition, IFJ and IPI-SEEMO urged the Greek authorities to explain why the journalists were obstructed from performing their duties and eventually forced to leave Greece. No answer to these complaints has been given so far by Greek officials. (Eurolang 2008)
India uses constitutional name of the Republic of Macedonia
in bilateral communication
http://www.mia.com.mk/default.aspx?vId=58069371&lId=2&pmId=501
Skopje, October 23 (MIA) - One of the most influential Asian states, the Republic of India, starting this month uses the constitutional name of the Republic of Macedonia in bilateral communication between the two countries.
Indian Government on Oct. 6 informed Macedonian Foreign Ministry that newly opened Macedonian Embassy in New Delhi has been registered in state diplomatic protocol of this country under its constitutional name and not under the reference the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia.
Despite of severe oppose and strong pressures by the Greek officials in an attempt to prevent this decision by the India's authorities, Macedonia with enormous diplomatic efforts, succeeded Macedonian Embassy to be registered under the constitutional name, Macedonian Foreign Ministry told MIA.
India and Macedonia established diplomatic relations in Feb. 1996 under the provisional reference the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. Macedonian Government in Jan. 2008 adopted a decision for opening an embassy in New Delhi aimed at intensifying the political and economic cooperation with India.
Macedonian Embassy has been opened on Oct. 7 and Ambassador Petar Jovanovski has been appointed as the Head of Embassy. sk/fd/13:42
Zhelev: Greece is not Macedonia's godfather
Berlin/Sofia /21/10/ 11:46
Greece has no right to impose name to Macedonia,
Bulgaria's former president and current chairman of Balkan Political Club
Zhelyu Zhelev said.
In an interview to Radio Deutsche Welle's Bulgarian news, Zhelev stressed
that the name and the identity of a nation and a state constitute an existentioanal
issue and a sovereign right to individual choice.
"When it comes to existentional and political problems of a nation
and a state, another country cannot dictate how the country should call itself.
I've told Greeks many times - you simply don't know what you want. On what grounds
you deprive the Republic of Macedonia from its right to call itself Republic
of Macedonia? The country existed within the old Yugoslav federation nearly half
a century with the same name," Zhelev said.
"Furthermore, the provisional name is inadequate. All republics that
acquired independence after the break-up of the Yugoslav federation are former
Yugoslav republics. Why Greece won't call Croatia a Former Yugoslav Republic
of Croatia, then Former Yugoslav Republic of Slovenia, Former Yugoslav Republic
of Serbia...? How come ostracism is applied to Macedonia only?" Zhelev said.
/end/
Copyright 2008 makfax. All
rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten,
or redistributed
Why Critics of Greece’s Macedonia Policy Keep Silent
By Takis Michas in Athens
November 11, 2008
Tuesday 11.11.2008 /16:48/ (Balkan Insight)
http://www.balkanin
sight.com/ en/main/comment/ 14709/
The Greek establishment still punishes people who deviate from the official line on Macedonia, as one former PASOK official discovered to his cost.
The legal prosecution and state-inspired harassment
of people professing different views on “national issues” that took place
during the early 1990s has left deep marks on Greek society.
Thus, today, even those few persons that have more critical views on the
Macedonian issue, for example, prefer to keep them to themselves, fearing that
such views will not improve their career prospects. As recent events show, their
fears are not unjustified.
Grigoris Valianatos had been employed since 1985 with the leading left-wing
opposition party PASOK as a political communications advisor. His job was to
“package” the political message of the party and help disseminate it. He did
not have any say in the contents of the message.
But when Valianatos was asked about his views on the “Skopje” issue and
the Macedonian minority in Greece during a TV interview last Thursday, he replied
that the country had every right to be called “Macedonia” and that a Macedonian
minority existed in Greece.
Although he made clear that those were his personal views and by no means
the views of the party, this clarification did not help him. The next morning,
PASOK issued a laconic statement informing the public that Valianatos’s contract
had been terminated because he had expressed “personal opinions” that contradicted
the party line.
“I was really shocked when I read the statement,” Valianatos told me when
I met him in Athens. “Everybody knew my views all these years and I never had
the slightest problem. Indeed when I gave a speech at a PASOK meeting a few year
ago and referred to the existence of a Turkish and a Macedonian minority the
participants all applauded, including the party leader, George Papandreou.”
The government in Skopje argues that there is indeed a Macedonian minority
in Greece, which has been deprived of its basic human rights of cultural and
national expression and education in its mother tongue.
Athens, on the other hand, says that the only true Macedonians are the
Greek Macedonians. As Greek Prime Minister Kostas Karamanlis wrote in his letter
to FYROM Prime Minister Gruevski "there has never existed a Macedonian minority" in
Greece.
Ever since the break-up of former Yugoslavia in 1991, Macedonia's name
and history has been the object of a dispute between Athens and Skopje.
After Greece strongly objected to Macedonia’s entry in to the United Nations
under that name, the country was admitted in 1993 under the provisional term
“Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia,” FYROM, pending a solution to the dispute.
The Skopje government insisted it had no territorial claims on Greek territory,
while Athens for its part pledged not to block Skopje’s accession to international
organizations, as long as it remained under the provisional name.
The so-called “name” row gained in momentum this April after Athens blocked
Skopje’s application to join NATO, insisting Macedonia had to change its name
first.
Valianatos, meanwhile, is also the author of various books, which until recently
appeared on the personal website of Papandreou. After the incident, they
disappeared from the PASOK leader’s website.
Valianatos insists his former role in PASOK had been purely technocratic.
“My role was not political. I would offer all sorts of ideas concerning how to
make PASOK’s message more effective but I had absolutely no influence in shaping
the message,” he said.
“That is why I find the decision to terminate my contract incomprehensible.
It is like dismissing your dentist because he happens to be a Maoist!”
Papandreou recently attended in Brussels a meeting of the Socialist International,
the organization of which he is the current president. What is ironic is that
most European socialists would agree with Valianatos on the issue of a Macedonian
minority.
Alas, Greece is not like the rest of Europe, and what is considered self-evident
in a European context is still too often considered a dangerous heresy in the
Balkans.
Takis Michas is a Greek journalist and author of the book “Unholy Alliance:
Greece and Milosevic’s Serbia” (Texas A & M University Press 2002). Balkan
Insight is BIRN`s online publication.
Not another BIG Greek Lie?
“As recently as the 19th century the official view
of Greek history was that ‘the Greek Penisula had been struggling for independence
from foreign domination ever since the ancient Greeks had been conquered
by the Macedonian armies in 338 BC’.”
By Anna Triandafyllidou, "National identity and the Other", Ethnic
and racial studies, Vol 21, No 4, July 1998, p. 605
Posted on www.maknews.com/forum by MK
From the International Scene
PROCEEDINGS
Of the Sixth International Topical Conference
Origins of Europeans
I would like to take the opportunity to thank Dr. Anton Perdih from Ljublijana, Slovenia for sending me the latest Zbornik from which I will include excerpts in this Digest.
Every year in the spring Slovenian academics, Dr. Perdih included, organize an International Conference in Slovenia in which presenters are invited to present an academic thesis on a variety of topics. At the end of the conference organizers publish the various topics presented into a publication called the “Zbornik”.
What follows next are short excerpts that I have quoted from this year’s (2008) Zbornik. If you are interested in obtaining more information or would like to participate either as an observer or as a presenter in future conferences, please let me know by e-mail at rstefov@hotmail.com and I will put you in touch with Dr. Anton Perdih in Slovenia.
Risto Stefov
Joseph Skulj, Jagdish C. Sharda, Snejina Sonina, Ratnakar Narale
INDO-ARYAN AND SLAVIC LINGUISTIC AND GENETIC AFFINITIES PREDATE THE ORIGIN OF CEREAL FARMING
The Hindu Institute of Learning, Toronto, Canada
Paper read at: The Sixth International Topical Conference: Origin of Europeans in Ljubljana, Slovenia June 6th and 7th 2008.
Abstract
Linguistic comparisons between Indo-Aryan languages, Vedic Sanskrit in particular, and Slavic languages show evidence of remarkable similarities in words of elemental nature and those describing the process of domestication of animals specially the terminology regarding the sheep and the cattle. Similarly, Haplogroup (Hg) R1a1 (HG3 in Rosser's nomenclature), the male lineage Y -Chromosome genetic marker found at high frequencies both in the Slavic and the Indo-Aryan male populations points to a common genetic origin of a large percentage of speakers of Slavic and Indic languages. Judging from the linguistic evidence, the separation of these Indo-European branches appears to predate the advent of cereal domestication. Applying Alinei's 'Lexical Self- Dating' (LSD) methodology to date the linguistic and the genetic evidence, we estimate that the split between Indo-Aryans and the ancestors of Slavs occurred, after the domestication of the sheep and cattle, about 10,000 years ago, but before cereal farming became a common industry amongst the ancestors of Slavs in Europe and Indo-Aryans on the Indian sub-continent. Moreover, the genetic evidence does not indicate that there were any major migrations of people from Europe, including the ancestors of the present day Slavs, to the Indian sub-continent during the last 8,000 years. The migration appears to have come from the Indian sub-continent to Europe. However, there is a record of many military incursions over the millennia into the sub-continent.
Furthermore, based on the linguistic, genetic, zoo-archaeological and population growth evidence, the coalescence of R1a1 in an ancestor common to many Indo-Aryans and Slavs, probably occurred during the hunting-gathering era and there is evidence that the close contact between the ancestors of Indo-Aryans and Slavs continued during the sheep and cattle domestication, up to and including the nomadic pastoral age. Based on this evidence, the major population expansion from the Indian sub-continent into Europe appears to have come, before the age of cereal farming.
Also the patrilineal Y -Chromosome genetic marker Hg R1a1, that accompanied this expansion, appears to be more than 100,000 years old, based on its relative high frequency, diversity and wide distribution extending from the Balkans to the Bay of Bengal. This estimated age, based on the reproductive rates of historical individuals, is considerably older than the molecular ages calculated on the basis of mutation rates as reported in the literature.
Introduction
The earliest evidence of Paleolithic human presence in the Indo-Pakistani sub-continent consists of stone implements found in the Soan River Valley in northern Pakistan. These tools appear to indicate the presence of hominids in the sub-continent as early as 200,000- 400,000 years ago (Qamar et al. 2002). However, according to C. Renfrew, when W. Jones first spoke of the early literature of India he had absolutely no idea of the antiquity of Indian civilization. For many years, the material record did not go back much before the time of King Ashoka in the 3rd century BC, and the brief accounts of north India left by the commentators upon Alexander the Great travels and conquests in the previous century. It was in 1921 that the great discovery of the Indus Valley civilization was made, with the investigation of two of its great cities at Mohenjodaro and Harappa. This civilization was already flourishing shortly after 3000 BC. Other archaeological excavations in western Pakistan have found evidence of the cultivation of cereal crops such as barley, einkorn, emmer and bread wheat preceding 6000 BC (Renfrew 1987: 183, 190).
Based on archaeological evidence, it is generally accepted that the agriculture originated in the Fertile Crescent of the Near East about 12,000 years ago and that new cereal crops, as well as domesticated sheep, goat and probably cattle spread via Anatolia all over Europe. It has also been suggested that the global expansion of farming included also the dispersal of genes and languages (Haak 2005, Renfrew 1987: 266). However, genetic evidence suggests firmly that there were at least two independent domestications of cattle, sheep, pig and water buffalo. In addition to the Fertile Crescent, cattle and sheep were also domesticated on the Indian sub-continent (Loftus 1994, Bradley 2000). In this paper, we will attempt to demonstrate that there is genetic and linguistic evidence that the expansion of herding, from the Indian sub-continent, was also accompanied by the dispersal of genes and languages.
From the Greek historian Herodotus, who was describing notable events occurring during his lifetime and the times before -2,500 years ago, we learn that the Indians were more numerous than any other nation that he was acquainted with and paid tribute exceeding that of every other people, 360 talents of gold-dust, to the Persian king Darius. From his accounts we also learn, that in his day, the tribes of Indians were numerous and did not all speak the same language; some were nomads others not (Herodotus 1942: 259-264).
It is noteworthy how little have things changed in the last 2,500 years, since Herodotus. Even now, the population of the Indian sub-continent, including Pakistan, Nepal, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and India proper, is the largest on the planet and totals nearly 1.5 billion humans, representing -23% of the world's population. This is higher than the population of China or any other nation. Many languages are still spoken in India; Hindi speakers being the largest population.
Similarly for the Slavs in Europe: Herodotus writes, »The Thracians are the most powerful people in the world, except, of course, the Indians; and if they had one head, or were agreed among themselves, it is my belief that their match could not be found anywhere, and that they would very far surpass all other nations. But such union is impossible for them, and there are no means for ever bringing it about. Herein, therefore, consists their weakness. The Thracians bear many names in the different regions of their country, but all of them have like usages in every respect, excepting only the Getae, the Trausi and those who dwell above the people of Creston « (Herodotus: 374). Alinei has advanced a hypothesis based on the historical and linguistic evidence that Thracians was the name Herodotus gave to the Slavs owing to the fact that the Thracians were one of the most powerful and representative elites of the Slavic speaking Eastern Europe (Alinei 2003). Modern day relative population numbers appear to reflect those of the ancient world. The population on the Indian sub-continent is still the largest in the world and the Slavic speakers form the most numerous language group in Europe and they occupy more than one half of the landmass of Europe (Rand McNally 1980). (Zbornik 2008. pages 5 to 7)
Anton Perdih, Giancarlo Tomezzoli, Vinko Vodopivec
COMPARISON OF CONTEMPORARY AND ANCIENT LANGUAGES
Key words: multidimensional analysis, sound frequencies, linguistic distances, ancient languages, Venetic, Rhaetic, Old Phrygian, Old Slovenian, Old Church Slavonic, Etruscan, Latin, Venetian, Greek, Basque, Estonian, Finnic, Hittite, Luvian, Mycenean, Oscan, Umbrian.
Abstract
Determining the agreement in grammatical structure and in the language material that bears the structure in some ancient languages is questionable. Short and damaged inscriptions which are written in continuous manner, in dialects and with many abbreviations are always subject to potential error in exact translation. This is the case among the Venetic, Rhaetic, and Phrygian inscriptions, where it is useful at the moment to only focus on the comparison of sound frequencies.
Unidimensional as well as multidimensional analyses of sound frequencies in 16 languages, mostly ancient, where in some of them the division of the continuous text into words is still questionable, support the previous observation that Venetic and Rhaetic are by sound frequencies closer to Old Slovenian than to Old Italic languages (Latin, Oscan, Umbrian). Close to Venetic and Rhaetic are in these characteristics also Old Phrygian and Etruscan. Interesting is (by this criterion) also the closeness of Estonian resp. Finnic to most of these languages. Latin, Oscan, and Umbrian form a different cluster than the Etruscan, Rhaetic and Venetic. Whereas Etruscan is close to Rhaetic, Old Slovenian, Venetic, etc, it is not close to Hittite and Luvian, from which it is sometimes supposed to derive. Present Venetian dialect is by the sound frequencies closer to Old Slovenian than to Latin. This indicates that the sound frequencies are very resistant to phonemic changes.
Analyses of frequencies of sounds and their combinations in various languages give thus: results, which contribute additional light into knowledge of them. They contribute it from a different and independent point of view than the agreement in grammatical structure and in the language material that bears the structure.
Introduction
Many computational techniques were used in the past for calculating the linguistic distances between languages, dialects or variants in same or different family languages.
Nerbonne [1-3J, Kessler [4], Heeringa [5] were successful in measuring Dutch and Irish dialects distances, in which the phonetics and the meaning of the words were known. The Levenshtein distance technique presented by Kruskal [6] and used by many other authors is also extremely reliable in the calculation of the phonetic distance when applied to Corpuses of well-known words having well known phonetics and grammar rules.
The problem of some ancient languages, like e.g. the Venetic, Rhaetic etc. is that a large Corpus of words cannot be accessed. Even more important is the fact that the exact pronunciation rules are not definitely known, some of them being only supposed. The subdivision of the inscriptions written in continuo into words, their understanding, the exact meaning of the punctuation system, and the precise grammar rules are practically unknown. Additionally, the linguistic evolution is unknown.
Thus, for some of the ancient languages it is not possible to use the usual techniques: the Levenshtein distance, the frequency of phonetic features, the frequency per word, the Manhattan distance or hybrid techniques used by Vieregge et al. [7], for evaluating the linguistic distances between these and other ancient or present languages.
For these reasons, in previous contributions [8, 9] a much more simple and direct one-dimensional method for evaluation of said linguistic distances was applied. After putting together several additional language databases, we have the chance in our search to apply in their evaluation not only the simplest one- or two-dimensional techniques but also a multidimensional one. (Zbornik 2008. pages 40 to 41)
Pavel Serafimov
THE ORIGIN OF THE GLAGOLITIC ALPHABET
Abstract
New facts revealing the phonetic and graphic similarities of 20 Glagolitic letters with 20 graphemes from Linear A script, and 23 Glagolitic letters with 23 graphemes from Linear B script and graphic similarities of additional 13 Glagolitic letters with 13 graphemes from Linear A, and 9 Glagolitic letters with 9 graphemes from Linear B, push back the beginning of the creation of Glagolitic alphabet from 9th Century AD to approx. 18th Century BC. The resemblance of Glagolitic letters to Venetic symbols of 5th Century BC and Scytho-Sarmatian runes of 1st-3rd Century AD shows the transition between the Linear scripts of 2nd millennium BC and the Medieval Slavic alphabet. Evidence is presented that the sacred Slavic script and the archaic writing system of the Aegean region have their common roots in the Neolithic script of the Balkans -ancient Slavic lands.
Introduction
There aren't many societies, which have independently developed their own alphabet perfectly suitable for the peculiarities of their speech. Highly developed cultures, i.e. Greeks and Romans, had to adopt their writing systems from earlier literate traditions.
Putatively, the first Slavic alphabet -Glagolitsa is considered to be invented and introduced in the 9th Century AD. In fact there are many theories about the origin and the age of the Glagolitic alphabet. I. Taylor and V. Iagich claimed that Glagolitic was derived from some kind of cursive Greek alphabet from 9th Century AD, while V. Vondrak, R. Nahtigal, F. Fortunatov and others suggested that Cyril took his inspiration from Oriental scripts: Hebrew, Samaritan and Coptic. Quite different was the opinion of G. Cernohvostov, whose theory was presented posthumously by V. Kiparsky. (Zbornik 2008. page 99)
Kicking
towards his goals
By Kelly Ryan, Herald Sun
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,21928222-2862,00.html
FORGET the Hollywood version – Melbourne has the real-life
Karate Kid.
Ten-year-old Pece Naumovski has returned triumphant from the Go-Kan-Ryu
Karate international championships in Britain.
The tiny fighter punched, kicked and blocked his way to the gold medal
on points with more than 60 different defensive and offensive moves.
Just 18 months into his chosen sport he is being hailed a true talent of
a martial art that combines explosive fight action with the grace and poise of
a slow dance routine.
"I practice six days a week and I have got very professional trainers
who help me reach the best of my ability," the humble hero said.
Not content to let his hands and feet do the talking, Pece gets his father,
Vasil, to keep his impressive mohawk clipped.
"It makes me look like a warrior," he said.
Already a brown belt with the coveted black belt in his sights, Pece said
he owed a lot to the local Lalor community, which helped fund his recent winning
trip to Birmingham.
Thomastown Meadows Primary School, where he is a grade 5 pupil, and the
City of Whittlesea chipped in to send Pece to the competition.
GKR Karate state coach Jason Knight said Pece was ahead of the pack.
"To get to black belt would normally take about five years and the
fact he is almost there is incredible," Mr. Knight said.
"It just shows the mindset he's got, which at age 10 is extraordinary.
Yet he always shows a lot of humility. He's a very humble boy and very well-mannered."
Victorian State Opposition Leader Applauds 'Macedonia is Greek' Chant!
The Victorian Opposition Leader Ted Baillieu, and
Gary Singer, Deputy Mayor of Melbourne, have unwittingly ignited ethnic
tension in Melbourne (Australia) after they attended a controversial "Greek" (Arvanitovlach)
community rally in Melbourne's Federation square this past Sunday (November
9th) sponsored by the Victorian Multicultural Commission, a state government
body.
Mr. Baillieu who was on stage with Mr. Singer and Mr. John Pandazopoulos,
a former Labor State Minister, all cheered and clapped after the MC of the
event shouted in "Greek" (Arvanitovlach bastardized imposed koine) "Ellas,
Ellas Makedhonia," which in English is translated to mean Greece, Greece
(Arvanitovlachia) is Macedonia." (this of course doesn't make any sense!)
Ted Baillieu. E-d wa-r (d) : (zhiv)E-d(on) > "Lives zeus",
wa-r > ve'-r(a) > "lives ra".
Bai-llieu : Ve'-lu > "Lives lu".
Can Ted Baillieu please explain to me why the hell is he cheering and clapping
for (let alone being there) when his own name is proto-Slavic based!
By Dimitria, Melbourne, Australia
Issues
From 1945 to the break up of Yugoslavia all correspondence from Athens to Belgrade, regarding the Macedonians, referred to the "Socialist Republic of Macedonia".
F.Y.R.O.M was a huge step back.
Now, Greece decided sometime in the later 1980's to change its policy.
Its first pre-emptive strike against the soon to be free Macedonian Republic
was to rename three prefectures in its Northern Province. The purpose of this
was soon made clear. The Greeks planned to take the fight to the Macedonians, "over
the border", by creating a name dispute - where FROM A GREEK POINT OF VIEW
there wasn't one before.
In other words - Greece decided to pick a fight. It's all a lie - and the
Macedonians have been sucked into it - hook, line and sinker.
The Macedonians are disadvantaged the moment they decide to participate
in negotiations; because the negotiations legitimize two things, one, there is
a dispute over the name (whereas before there wasn't one), and two, Greece has
an equal and rightful claim to the name and history of Macedonia (which it does
not). The "name dispute" also cunningly deflects attention away from
a history of cultural genocide in Greece. The other disadvantage is the issue
becomes internationalized - Greek abuses are set aside - and suddenly third parties
start making new demands upon the Macedonians. The demands are false, but the
Macedonians don't realize this. They are too caught up by now trying to appease
third parties. It doesn't occur to them that all they have to do is end the negotiations
on the principles of self determination and sovereignty. From there they can
pursue this in the U.N - not one on one with Greece. People will fall into two
categories - either accepting this position, or rejecting it and as I have said
it will be no different from what is happening right now. E.U and NATO membership
is not contingent on these negotiations - and Greece has shown it will VETO when
it wants and how it wants. So, through these negotiations - the Macedonians want
to show "the World" that they are for peace - they are dancing to someone
else’s tune, like puppets with both eyes on the judges hoping they won't be too
hard on them.
So, negotiating is a huge disadvantage to the Macedonians.
The other thing is this.
When Greece says the Macedonians have territorial ambitions on Greece,
what do you think they are saying? What are they knowingly or unknowingly revealing
about Macedonia - its people and history? The Greeks keep repeating this because
they know the Macedonians have a rightful claim. Of course Macedonians have a
rightful claim to their traditional lands, which they were forced out of. This
is the issue - 1913 and the Treaty of Bucharest. This is where they will beat
the Greeks. The Macedonians have A CLAIM AND A RIGHT TO THEIR TRADITIONAL LANDS
- the Greeks know this - which is why they keep repeating it. In the context
of the invasion of Macedonia in 1913 - the Macedonian government needs to raise
the cultural genocide of the Macedonians, and the Hellenization of Macedonia.
It turns the Greek attack around - and forces Europe to come to terms with
the Macedonian Question, once and for all.
We are Macedonians. That is why this is happening. And we deserve an explanation
regarding 1913.
By Paul from www.maknews.com/forum
Concerns
Peter Green lived 10 years in the Former Ottoman Province of Yunanistan (Greece) when writing at least one of his books. What is even more "interesting" is that Peter Green had to undergo a "check" of his manuscript ("Alxander to Actium", 970 pages) by a Greek official.
"The Helenistic age has one great advantage
for us: it is easily definable. Its unity was first perceived, its limits
set, even its name invented, by the Nineteenth century German historian
Johann Gustav Droysen.
For him, as for most subsequent students of the period, it began with the
death of Alexander the Great in 323 BC, continued through the rise, decline and
fall of the great kingdoms carved by his marshals (known as the Diadochoi or "successors")
from the empire he left, and ended with Octavian's dissolution of the last of
these, Ptolomeic Egypt in 30 BC, just under three centuries later.
This is modern perspective: it is highly doubtful whether any ancient writer,
from the Augustian age onwards, ever recognized the problem in these terms. Rome's
triumph encouraged an innate natural tendency to take short views.
It follows that to attempt a historical survey of the Hellenistic period
means, in effect, writing a history of the Greek world, the oikonmene, during
that period: not only of the Greek-speaking cities and states (as opposed to
those that merely employed the vernacular Attic Koine as a lingua franca), but
also of those far larger areas, profoundly alien in speech and culture to the
Greek spirit, that were forcibly taken over, and in a very real sense exploited,
by foreign overlords: Greek, Macedonian, and later, Roman.
It became clear to me during my researches that the degree to which the
Greek-Macedonian Diaspora spread its much vaunted culture, its reasons for doing
so, and the audience it reached, especially in the East, had been in ways badly
misinterpreted. Thus one of my objects in writing the present work is to draw
a more realistic picture of the impact, nature, and limitations of this diffusion.
I must state plainly at the outset that I regard the whole notion of a
conscious, idealistic missionary propagation in conquered territories of Greek
culture, mores, literature, art, and religion -- much less the undertaking of
such conquests, whether of Alexander himself or any of his successors, with this
ulterior end in view -- as a pernicious myth, compounded by anachronistic Christian
evangelism and Plutarch-inspired wishful thinking, and designed (whether consciously
or not) to provide moral justification for what was, in essence, despite its
romantic popularity, large scale economic and imperial exploitation.
Edward Will points out how much the prewar attitude of Hellenistic imperialism
was conditioned by "la bonne conscience", and to what extent "le
choc de la decolonisation nous a fait prendre conscience de ce qu'etaient les
realites coloniales," with a very similar impact on the thinking of the
Hellenistic historian. ..."
(Peter Green, Alexander to Actium, University of California Press, Berkeley,
Los Angeles, 1990, pg. xv-xvi)
Posted by Milka
Choices
Macedonia...the Palestine of Europe
By Jus Divinum
It is unfortunate that the Greeks, based on mythology
and Western fabrication of history, have been able to not only steal Aegean
Macedonia but have stolen so many of the islands of the Mediterranean.
Greek Mythology starts with the belief that there has existed in history
(prior to 1829) a country called "Greece." Stupid people actually believe
that what is today "Greece" in borders, lines, boundaries, and islands,
was "always Greece."
In this sense, when Greece gained its independence from the Ottoman's and
when Greece was helped by the West, philhellenes desired to resurrect "Greek" lands
by stealing them from the natives who have lived in them for ages.
In the Middle East, for example, it was the West, principally the U.S.
and England, who helped "Israel" create a Jewish state where none has
existed since 2000 years back. What is remarkable is that Israel not only stole
Palestine from the Palestinians, they also in the 6 Day War stole "Arab" land
in the Middle East. All this was justified on the grounds of "history/religion," and "to
prevent another holocaust like event against Jews."
If we look at Cyprus, the question is: why should Cyprus be "Greek." I
mean, Cyprus has been occupied by so many different civilizations and peoples
for eons and yet somehow or another the island is "pure Greek." Strange
logic!
Macedonia, the Palestine of Europe, has to be reunited. This is the first
great step to overthrow the Hellenic Yoke off the Balkans. I understand this
will not be easy; but, my friends, do you not see what measures the Palestinians
are using against Israel to take back what is theirs? How much more is historic
Macedonia, which has never been Greek?
Clearly, the Greeks are in no way stronger than Israel; and clearly Macedonia
is stronger than Palestine. Greece will never surrender the land peacefully but
only through war. I know some Macedonians entertain this idea; others are fearful.
Greece has NATO's backing; Macedonia has Turkey at best. This is a big problem.
Even without NATO, and the rest of the wolves of the Balkans, Macedonia would
have none to impossible chance of taking back the Aegean.
The bulwark on which the Greek nation is built on--and it is a bulwark,
when, exposed, will implode in front of everyone's eyes--is that Greece has an
historic connection to the past, which it doesn’t, and that Greeks have a right
to control the Mediterranean.
Once these Greek myths are exposed for what they are, all historic connections
as well as tourist dollars will vanish. When the first one falls, the second
will follow. All nations of the Balkans and the Middle East will say to themselves "who
are these imposters, who have stolen our civilization without credit to us, and
have lied to the world, who are they to control and govern the Eastern Mediterranean
lands?" All chaos will break loose.
You see, Greeks fear above all else the collapse of the Slavic Migration
Theory. Once this theory is torn asunder, and it will, Greece would no longer
have any false pretext to deny the Balkan people their place.
Greece is a nation built on lies, lies, and more lies. It is an edifice,
which upon first glimpse, seems great but in reality is full of dead man's bones.
Greece is a historic deception rivaled only by Israel.
Macedonia must get the Aegean back; they must have control over the Aegean
port for trade, tourist dollars, exports (olives, olive oil), and for historic
purposes. This latter aspect is the most important. Once the Aegean is restored,
the world will better recognize the claims of Macedonia. How I long for the day
when "Greece" is stripped of its islands, is stripped of the Aegean,
and Greek history is exposed for what it is, lies!
WE ARE ALL A DISGRACE; WE HAVE FAILED OUR BELOVED FATHERS OF ANCIENT MACEDONIA;
NEVER WOULD HAVE ALEXANDER THE GREAT SUFFERED THE GREEKS TO MANIPULATE MACEDONIA
AND MOCK HER AND DENY HER, HER GOD GIVEN RIGHTS! ALEXANDER MUST BE LAMENTING
IN HIS GRAVE!!!
Originally posted by Alex G. (aka RMK), Translation by
Rogi.
Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmNlukBOEDg
http://www.maknews.com/forum/general-discussions/re-youtube-exposes-greek-racism-t11787.html
First Person...
“If they told me even one toponym in Greek, I wouldn’t
know it...even the army referred to them that way, in Macedonian, over
their radio’s... for example ‘Crveni Brest(?)’, ‘Cheshma’ and so on, the
same as how we know them”
“I hear from many people that they are being forgotten”.
“They are being forgotten... a lot... It is disturbing that whilst the Vlach
has his own dialect, the Pontian too, we have neighbours here Pontians, Gypsies,
and from every race, they have rights and we have none. I don’t want to lose
my dialect. I speak Macedonian, I know my mother tongue. I never spoke Greek
with my mother, I don’t... never... my mother didn’t even know Greek, nor
did my grandmother, neither of my grandmothers did!
“If I ask you how you feel, Greek or Macedonian, I know what you will answer...”
First I am a Macedonian, then I am a Greek.
Second Person (Pando)...
“I will tell you basic things, about my daughter. I wanted to christen her
and I told the Priest the name ‘Donka’. That’s what I asked of from the Godfather,
and the priest told me that I cannot christen her as ‘Donka’. He said ‘You
call her as you like, I will christen her as Domna’. I wanted to christen
my son as ‘Stojan’ and he told me ‘No, it can’t be – I will christen him
as Yannis, and you can call him as you like’. Let me make sure we understand
each other, we are Christians, we are Greek citizens, but we do not have
Rights. What are Rights? Rights do not mean that I live well, it’s not about
me eating well...”
“So what rights are we talking about?”
“So that I can christen my children as I like, why would you take that away
from me? (Person off screen: “so that I can learn/study in my own language")
So that I can learn my own language, at least at Primary school. Is that
bad? For the Roma (gypsy) to know the Romani language, the Turk to know Turkish,
the Vlach to know the Vlach-language.”
“You want to be able to learn the language at school?”
“Yes, of course! People did not leave as economic refugees to make money!
They left to save their lives!”
Next Person...
“When I was born, my village was called “D’mbeni”, with the old name, D’mbeni.
Then when I grew up, they re-christened it to Dendrohori,
“In which prefecture was your village located?”
“In the Kostur (Kastoria) prefecture.”
“Did you participate in the National Liberation Front - NOF (Narodno Osloboditelen
Front)?”
“In 1940 I joined the KNE (Organisation for Communist Youth). From 1943 I
joined the Communist Party of Greece and later into the Macedonian organisation
SNOF – Slavomacedonian Liberation Front. In 1943 I went out to the mountains
and fought together with the Communist Party of Greece, we had to organise
all the villages against fascism. The occupiers were the Germans, the Bulgarians
and I don’t know who wasn’t an occupier here! We had to defeat them so that
we could free ourselves so that we as Macedonians, living in Greece, together
with the Greeks, together with the Greek democratists, could have our rights,
to have our schools, our religion, to have...how can I tell you... our songs
and so on. That was everything, we didn’t want to take part of Greece or
anything like that”
“If I ask you now, what kind of national identity do you have? Macedonian
or Greek?”
“I have a Macedonian identity, I am a Macedonian woman. So many years I fought...”
“But you fought for Greece!”
“Together with the Greeks, for Greece...”
“You were born in a village in Greece...”
“Yes...”
“Did your parents speak Greek?”
“No! They didn’t speak Greek. They never learnt the Greek language.”
“Did they speak slavomacedonian?”
“At home and everywhere they spoke the Slavic language, the Macedonian language
and that’s how I learnt, and the police would come to the windows of our
house to hear how we would speak and if they heard you, they would come inside
and write you a fine for 500 drachma.”
“What do you aim to achieve with your organisations?”
“To be able to go to my village. To go to the graves, which were unfortunately
destroyed. They don’t exist today, because the headstones were written in
the Macedonian language. On the crosses it wrote... and they destroyed them
all.”
“That which you are telling me about wanting only to visit your village and
the graves, contradicts the claim for land-titles. The documents which you
are showing me here, show that you are claiming land-titles.”
“Ok, the land-title questions are separate.”
“They are not separate.”
“They are separate. I can seek... that is separate... it’s not just the land-titles...
I don’t even want the land-title, for that others are organizing.”
“So then, your aim is first to have the right to visit and then to claim
the titles to land?”
“It’s not just that. To be able to go freely, to be able to go even to Athens,
to get to know... my cousin and uncle have passed away... my nieces and nephews,
who I do not know. In Kostur (Kastoria) the same. In Lerin (Florina) we went
2-3 times, also in Voden (Edessa)... but for us we don’t care only for the
land-titles. We want the Greek Government to recognize us, that we are a
different people... how can I tell you... we are not Greeks by birth/ethnicity.
We are Macedonians by birth/ethnicity; we have Macedonian blood, not Greek
blood.”
Free Advice
The pen is mightier then the sword (Part II)
This is a classic example of how modern Greek propaganda
works...its simply a lie by omission. By only telling half of the story,
our modern Greek friends are deliberately trying to make an assertion completely
opposite to what the ancient historians originally meant to convey. For
instance, yes it is true that since the time of Alexander I, the Argead
royal family in Macedonia claimed to be 'Greeks' originally from Argos
in the Peloponnesus, but that is only half of the story. The Argead kings
of Macedonia claimed to be 'Greeks' (not Macedonians) from the Peloponnesus
who had moved north to territory completely outside of Greece to establish
themselves as kings over a non-kindred race (the Macedonians). Isocrates
tells this story (myth) in full below in his letter to Philip II;
And the founder of your empire, although he aspired higher than did his
fellow citizens and set his heart on a king's power, was not minded to take the
same road as others who set out to attain a like ambition. For they endeavored
to win this honor by engendering factions, disorder, and bloodshed in their own
cities; he, on the other hand, held entirely aloof from Hellenic territory, and
set his heart upon occupying the throne of Macedon. For he knew full well that
the Hellenes were not accustomed to submit to the rule of one man, while the
other races were incapable of ordering their lives without the control of some
such power. And so it came about, owing to his unique insight in this regard,
that his kingship has proved to be quite set apart from that of the generality
of kings: for, because he alone among the Hellenes did not claim the right to
rule over a people of kindred race, he alone was able to escape the perils incident
to one-man power. (Isocrates., To Philip, 5.106.)
Ironically, even if we were to accept the improbable claim that the Argead
kings were actually 'Greek's, this still doesn't change the fact that ancient
Greeks such as Isocrates continued to consider the general Macedonian population
to be non-Greek. For reasons of politics and prestige, it was common for the
rulers of various nations in the ancient world to claim descent from other peoples.
For instance, if we were to accept the highly improbably Argead claim to be 'Greeks'
originally from the Peloponnesus, then we must also accept the following improbable
claims as well;
The Spartans kings as 'genuine Egyptians'
...the Dorian Chieftains are pure are genuine Egyptians. This is the accepted
Greek version of the Spartan royal house. (Herodotus., The Histories, 6.54.)
The Persians kings as 'Greeks'
We Persians believe we are descended from Perses, whose father was Danae's
son Perseus, and whose mother was Andromeda the daughter of Cepheus. Thus
we are of the same blood as yourselves, and it would not be right for us
to make war upon the people from whom we have sprung. (Herodotus., The Histories,
7.150.)
...And the Lycestian Macedonian kings (rivals of the Argeads for the throne
of Macedonia), at one stage claimed to be 'Bacciads' (Corinthian Greeks)
ruling over a non-Greek people...the Macedonians.
These people, I say, were not ruled by men of native stock; and the Lyncestae
became subject to Arrabaeus, who was of the stock of the Bacchiads. (Strabo.,
Geography, VII.8.)
As you can see, the Argead claim of descent from Argos as well as these other
claims have more to do with politics and prestige than reality.
Posted by Robert from www.maknews.com/forum
History
A
letter from P.R. Slaveykov to the Bulgarian Exarch
Salonika, February 1874
Your Grace,
I arrived in Salonika on the evening of the 14th of last month (January
1874). I immediately went to meet all the important local people and some others
from the other Macedonian towns. My aim was to gather information as soon as
possible on what was to be necessary for the success of the mission with which
you had entrusted me. I first met Father Averkij Zografski, and the following
day Father Petar Dimitrov as well, the local president of the community. I may
inform you, Your Grace, that the wind from here, from Salonika, blows and scatters
to all sides. These two clergyman, to my mind, are the leaders of the movement
for the restoration of the Archbishopric of Ohrid, although one should not neglect
Ohrid and to certain extent Bitola, Veles and Skopje either. The Unite movement
here is not without roots, as they think in Constantinople, especially His Grace,
Count Ignatiev. During the time I have been in Macedonia I have ascertained the
same we had formerly known and written three years ago. Now, as then or twenty
years ago, we are dealing with the Macedonian question. In talks with few Macedonian "patriots" I
have understood that this movement, which had been only bare words till a few
years ago, is now clear and precise thought - "The Macedonians are not Bulgarians" and
they persistently strive, regardless of the price, to obtain a separate church
of their own.
They also have the support in their separatism of some high clergyman in
Constantinople, especially His Grace Nathaniel Ohridski, Panariot Plovdivski,
and Archimandrite Hariton Karpuzov. I have understood this month from reliable
sources that there are letters which arrive every day from Constantinople to
the Salonika community, and are then sent to the other communities in the provinces.
The letters are written in this spirit. One such letter, which the Salonika community
sent to the community of Voden, calls upon the inhabitants of Voden to break
off all their relations with the Exarchate until the Macedonian Church question
is settled, because "now is the moment". Mr. Kuzman Shapkarev from
Ohrid, who is well known to us, has done a great deal to spread the idea of the
restoration of the Archbishopric of Ohrid; he constantly travels between Kukish
and Ohrid and v.v., but at whose expense, I do not know. Mr. Dimitar Makedonski, "the
Macedonian textbook writer", is no less active, receiving salary as a teacher
from the Exarchate and from local Lazarists.
Owing to such unreasonable sermons by the Macedonian patriots that the
church question has been settled only in favor of the Bulgarians, there is discontent
among the people towards the eparchies of the Danube and Adrianople vilayets
as well as envy because of the earlier awakening of the Bulgarians. One can especially
feel a great resistance against the East Bulgarian variant in literature. A general
impression is that the local people think that the Macedonians have been done
a great harm with the settlement of the church question in favor of the Danubian
and Thracian Bulgarians. This discontent has already grown into distrust of the
Exarchate and its higher echelons and there is an attitude formed that the local
Macedonian dialect should be declared a literary language and a Macedonian hierarchy
established.
Great attention, Your Grace, should be paid to His Grace Nathaniel, who
promised the local people that as soon as he comes to his eparchy he will take
steps for the restoration of the Archbishopric of Ohrid. He seems to be connected
with the Macedonian craftsman in Constantinople, among whom he spreads the news
about the agreement with the Patriarchate. For their own part they inform their
own people in Macedonia about this. It causes great discontent here. Consequently,
separatism has its roots in the secret circle of Constantinople. If you press
them there, the commotion will calm down here. Silence the trumpet, there won't
be any echo!
The question of Father Nil is a highly delicate one, because he has barricaded
himself in Kukush and does not want to return. His ambition seems to have made
him to this. He stuffed his head with the thought of becoming the Archbishop
of Ohrid are at least Metropolitan of Salonika. As an Exarchate delegate he spreads
the news about the agreement with the Patriarchate as the " most informed
person". He describes the Exarchate to the people as indifferent and passive
in saving the Macedonian population from Greek spiritual slavery. Father Nil,
who proved to be completely immature, seems to be a hireling of the highest Turkish
vilayet authorities. However, his disobedience to his headquarters began at the
moment when he was summoned to return to Constantinople. Instead of obeying orders,
he remained waiting there. His disobedience also comes as a result of the suggestions
that have been arriving from Constantinople. He maintains constant relations
with Bishop Panaret and Nathaniel especially with the latter, who has suggested
he stay in Macedonia until he gets an appointment for Ohrid and arrives in Macedonia.
I think that Father Nil should be cast out of Macedonia at any cost and sent
to Constantinople, because he is dangerous here. He already acts under the protection
of the local Lazarists and the French consul.
Thoughts of the restoration of the Archbishop of Ohrid at the moment are
most prevalent here, in Salonika. Here the schemes are being devised and here
the hotheads are gathering. These thoughts of course are not based upon mature
foundation, especially since Midhat-Pasha has been dismissed from Salonika. But
they are gradually spreading to northern Macedonia, although they are not very
clear. Some say one thing to the people and others say another. There is danger,
if steps are not taken from same authoritative place, of creating a general ideal.
Then the consequences would be much more serious. The best thing would be if
His Grace, Count Ignatiev, were to visit Macedonia, because the population feels
a secret hope that only Russia could help them.
Tomorrow, with God's help, I intend to meet some of the elders from the
local community. I shall try to convince them of the groundlessness of their
aspirations for a separate Church when they already have one in the form of the
Exarchate. Certainly the most difficult question will be that of the appointment
of bishops of Macedonian origin and especially that of the cheirotonia of Father
Hariton.
I kiss Your Grace's right hand. Your obedient P.R. Slaveykov
Stories
More Than Just Proto-Slavs And Hebrews
The "Graikos" (Greeks) or "Ellines" (Hellenes)
of Morea were more than just a product of the fusion between the indigenous
proto-Slav (or "Giorgi") Pelasgians and the colonizer/invader
Hyksos-Israelites.
Fresh evidence from molecular biology shows that the genes of modern Greeks
bear resemblance to the genes of the ethnic groups who are living in Sudan, Ethiopia
and West Africa (Burkina-Faso).
The following article/s may give an insight as to how,
why and when this may have occurred.
WHITE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS! (PART ONE)
Initially, the "Ancient Egyptians" were
a white people! They lived in the Southern part of the country (known as
Upper Egypt).
Since the fall of the Second Kingdom, the demographic shift amongst the
Egyptian population had been against the original 'Whites'. Slowly at first,
but then speeding up, non-whites or mixed racial types (drawn in as slaves, labourers,
immigrants or invaders) began to make up more and more of that country's
population.
These other racial types were of two sorts: Semites (whom the Egyptians
called "Sand Dwellers") and Blacks, from the region of Nubia in the
far south (present day Sudan).
Race War With Nubia:
Clashes between the Egyptians and the Black Nubians had long been a feature
of Egyptian history, with the first campaigns against the Nubians being launched
by Old Kingdom pharaohs from around 2,900 BC.
In 2,570 BC Pharaoh Snefru launched a concerted attack upon Nubia. Egyptian
records show that 70,000 prisoners were taken, a figure that must have been a staggering
amount at the time.
Egyptian Writings About Blacks:
The White Egyptians left many written references to the black population
in Nubia and in their own midst. In fact, at one point, their writings record
a law that forbade Blacks from entering their country at all.
An overview of these written inscriptions is highly worthwhile and devastates
claims by pro-Black historians, who, in an attempt to distort the historical
record, claim that the ancient Egyptian civilization was Black in racial origin.
The most complete record and translation of these scripts was undertaken by professor
James Henry Breasted, Professor of Egyptology and Oriental History in the University
of Chicago in his work "History of Egypt, from the Earliest Times to the
Persian Conquest", Second Edition, 1909.
In 1840 BC Pharaoh Sesostris III conducted four campaigns against the Blacks
and erected several forts at strategic points, making Nubia a permanent colony
of Egypt. -The first Semneh stela inscription recounting the subjugation
of Nubia by Sesostris III reads as follows:
"Southern boundry, made in the year 8, under the majesty of the king of
Upper and Lower Egypt, Sesostris III,....in order to prevent that any Black should
cross it, by water or by land, with a ship, or any herds of the Blacks; except
a Black who shall come to do training in Iken, or with a commission. Every good
thing shall be done with them but without allowing a ship of the Blacks to pass
by Heh, going down stream, forever".
Egyptian Racial Writings: The 18th Dynasty (1580 BC - 1350 BC)
The inscription of Ahmose reads:
"Now after his majesty had slain the Asiatics (Hyksos), he ascended
the river ........ to destroy the Nubian Troglodytes; his majesty made a great
slaughter among them...."
Many local Nubian kings had allied themselves with the Hyksos and inflicted
defeats upon the weakened Egyptians. When the Hyksos were finally driven
out, the White Egyptians exacted a terrible revenge upon the Blacks, launching
many campaigns of conquest and suppression against them, all the while bringing
back thousands into Egypt as slaves -a racial time bomb which was eventually
to destroy Egyptian civilization.
Google Nubian invasion of Egypt
By Rob, Sydney - Australia
Akhenaton
(Scota and Gaedel -part 11)
The Hyksos related Amenhotep pharaohs again rose
to power in Egypt a century or more after Ahmose I had overran Avaris in
1580 BC.
Akhenaton (Amenhotep IV) ascended to the throne in 1353 BC and reigned
until 1338 BC. The throne name of Akhenaton was Uin-Ra.
Moses, the high priest of Heliopolis was actualy TuthMoses, the brother
of Akhenaton. The biblical Moses and Akhenaton were the sons of Amenhotep II.
The 'Aton' was the title of Akhenaton's new god of Egypt. The reforms of
Akhenaton had expunged all the other gods and idols from Egypt, and his people
were expected to worship only the one hidden god (Aton) through Akhenaton himself.
Ankhesenamun -Scota (Ankhesenpaaten) was the daughter of Akhenaton.
Akhenaton assumed control of the army and had taken on the most powerful
institution in the land, the priesthood, and closed them down. Likewise, he had
taken on the hearts and minds of the people and convinced them, either through
persuasion or fear that their entire belief system was wrong and heretical.
Aye was vizier to Akhenaton. He bore many titles and held prestigious ranks.
It is presumed that Yuya was the father of Aye. Yuya was the influential noble whose
daughters and grandaughters married into the royal family on several occasions.
For these marriages to have proceeded, Yuya and his wife Tuya must have been
of the royal bloodline, and perhaps this was even a stronger branch of the
bloodline than most of the royals themselves.
Although no golden torqs (necklaces) appear to have survived in Egypt,
the evidence for this custom can be seen in the tombs at Amarna. That we have
this evidence at all is due, in no small part, to the less formal artistic style
that pervaded the Amarna regime; and a good example of the new artistic style
that had swept through Amarna during this period is to be found in the tomb of
Aye, which is the southernmost of the southern tombs at Amarna. Aye-Gaedel was
in the process of excavating a grand tomb at Amarna that was to have had twenty-four
pillars in its main hall, and an impressive array of wall paintings around the
perimeter. Instead of the usual formalistic scenes of the deceased meeting the
gods and being raised into the afterlife, we instead have a series of cartoon-like
vignettes that portray the main events in the life of Aye-Gaedel and the Amarna
royalty. One of these delightful depictions is of an award ceremony, where Aye
and his first wife Tiy, are shown being presented with a vast array of precious
goods. The royal couple, Akhenaton and Nefertiti (thought to be Aye's daughter) who
are giving out these awards can be seen standing in the window of appearances
along with three of their small daughters. All of the royal family are depicted
as being naked, which may seem odd for an award ceremony, but this is quite in
line with Akhenaton's naturalistic views. Although the God's Wives of Egypt were
invariably clad in long, revealing gowns, for the royal family to be completely
naked was still a quantum leap in social etiquette.
It was in years 15 and 17 under the co-regency rule of Akhenaton and Smenkhkare
(Nefertiti?) that the destruction of the cult of Amun (Ra) intensified,
and the image of Amun was erased from every temple in Thebes.
'Scota: Egyptian Queen of The Scots', by Ralph Ellis, Adventures Unlimited,
USA, 2006, Pages 32, 59, 108, 133-134, 160.
By A Digest Reader
Words
The
States of Georgia and Greece
Georgia/Georgians and Greece/Greeks are English pronunciations.
The terms "Georgia"/"Georgians" and "Greece/"Greeks" mean
the same thing! So, who is stealing who's identity here?! (forget Macedonia!!!)
"Giorgi-ja" & "Giorgi" or "Gruzi-ja" & "Gruzi" would
be the native pronounciations for Georgia & Georgians.
Giorgi > "Gio-r(a) (i) gi" > the 'life giving' Sun God 'Ra'
and 'zeus'.
The capital city of Georgia is Tbilisi. Tbi-li > Zhivi-li/the life giving
Sun God li, si > zhe/zeus.
Joseph Stalin was Georgian!!!
The Soviet dictator's real name was Josif Visarionovich Djugashvili.
Jo-sif: Jo > Zhe/Zeus, sif > zhiv(ee)/lives. "Zeus Lives".
Vi-sa-rion-(ovich): Vi > lives, sa > zeus, rion > ra. "Lives
Zeus and Ra".
Dju-ga-shvi-li: Dju-ga > Zhivee-zhe/Lives zeus, shvi-li > zhivee-li/Lives-li. "Lives
zeus, lives li".
North of Mt. Olympus, the indigenous Ancient Macedonians were Giorgi (Sloveni/Elleni)
but not "Graikos" or "Ellines"!
They were Gruzi. "G(io)-ru (i) zi" ("Gru"-evski!)
-In the 8th century BC, the Romans referred to a "Eur-African" Boeotian
tribe that migrated to Italy as 'Graecus'. Why? Perhaps there is a possibility
that the "Eur-African" City State citizens religiously identified
themselves as "Graikos".
-The Eur-African (independent of each other) City States themselves did not
call the territory south of Mt.Olympus as "Graik-ia".
-The Romans called the territory south of Mt.Olympus "Achaea".
'Achaea', not suprisingly, is probably a Roman name (an offshoot) derived
from the Eur-African City States own interpretation of the town of 'Argos'
at the Peleponnesus and its surrounding area
Perhaps Georgia should ask Greece to "explain" why they have
stolen their identity!
By Sash
Mycenae & Makedonia
My-cen (Mother of zeus) from which is derived "Mycenae",
is a proto-Slavic Pelasgian term.
Make-don (Mother of zeus) from which is derived "Makedonia", is
a proto-Slavic Phrygian or Brygian term.
Phrygian or Brygian > Ph>B>V > "V(e)-ry-gi" > Lives
Ra (and his son) zeus.
By Sash
GRAIKOS & FENIKE
"Thus, the indigenous Pelasgians (Mycenaeans) of Morea
were religious "Gio-r-gi", "S-lo veni" or "E-lle
ni" (Vene-ti), not later hybrid (proto-Slav/Hebrew, etc!) Graikos
or Ellines."
Thus, the indigenous people who lived in the nearby "coastal regions
of the middle-east" were religious "Vene-ti" (proto-Slavs),
not later hybrid (proto-Slav/Hebrew, etc!) "Feni-ke" or Phoenicians.
By Sash
The Da Vinci Code
If you think the Da Vinci code was embroiled in controversy,
just think about the implications associated with the name "Macedonia" (Mother
of Zeus State), formed from 825 BC!
Make - don - ald (McDonald)
Mother (Mary) - Jesus - God
By Vlado V.
"Vlado" > V(e)'-la-do(n)
Book and other Reviews
Don't forget Yugoslavia
The eye opening article below can be found at: www.johnpilger.com
August 14, 2008
In his latest column for the New Statesman, John
Pilger digs beneath the received wisdom for the break-up of Yugoslavia
and points to a largely ignored memoir by the former chief prosecutor in
The Hague - and an echo from current events in the Caucasus.
The secrets of the crushing of Yugoslavia are emerging, telling us more
about how the modern world is policed. The former chief prosecutor of the International
Criminal Tribunal for Yugoslavia in The Hague, Carla Del Ponte, this year published
her memoir The Hunt: Me and War Criminals. Largely ignored in Britain, the book
reveals unpalatable truths about the west's intervention in Kosovo, which has
echoes in the Caucasus.
The tribunal was set up and bankrolled principally by the United States.
Del Ponte's role was to investigate the crimes committed as Yugoslavia was dismembered
in the 1990s. She insisted that this include Nato's 78-day bombing of Serbia
and Kosovo in 1999, which killed hundreds of people in hospitals, schools, churches,
parks and television studios, and destroyed economic infrastructure. "If
I am not willing to [prosecute Nato personnel]," said Del Ponte, "I
must give up my mission." It was a sham. Under pressure from Washington
and London, an investigation into Nato war crimes was scrapped.
Readers will recall that the justification for the Nato bombing was that
the Serbs were committing "genocide" in the secessionist province of
Kosovo against ethnic Albanians. David Scheffer, US ambassador-at-large for war
crimes, announced that as many as "225,000 ethnic Albanian men aged between
14 and 59" may have been murdered. Tony Blair invoked the Holocaust and "the
spirit of the Second World War". The west's heroic allies were the Kosovo
Liberation Army (KLA), whose murderous record was set aside. The British foreign
secretary, Robin Cook, told them to call him any time on his mobile phone.
With the Nato bombing over, international teams descended upon Kosovo to
exhume the "holocaust". The FBI failed to find a single mass grave
and went home. The Spanish forensic team did the same, its leader angrily denouncing "a
semantic pirouette by the war propaganda machines". A year later, Del Ponte's
tribunal announced the final count of the dead in Kosovo: 2,788. This included
combatants on both sides and Serbs and Roma murdered by the KLA. There was no
genocide in Kosovo. The "holocaust" was a lie. The Nato attack had
been fraudulent.
That was not all, says Del Ponte in her book: the KLA kidnapped hundreds
of Serbs and transported them to Albania, where their kidneys and other body
parts were removed; these were then sold for transplant in other countries. She
also says there was sufficient evidence to prosecute the Kosovar Albanians for
war crimes, but the investigation "was nipped in the bud" so that the
tribunal's focus would be on "crimes committed by Serbia". She says
the Hague judges were terrified of the Kosovar Albanians - the very people in
whose name Nato had attacked Serbia.
Indeed, even as Blair the war leader was on a triumphant tour of "liberated" Kosovo,
the KLA was ethnically cleansing more than 200,000 Serbs and Roma from the province.
Last February the "international community", led by the US, recognized
Kosovo, which has no formal economy and is run, in effect, by criminal gangs
that traffic in drugs, contraband and women. But it has one valuable asset: the
US military base Camp Bondsteel, described by the Council of Europe's human rights
commissioner as "a smaller version of Guantanamo". Del Ponte, a Swiss
diplomat, has been told by her own government to stop promoting her book.
Yugoslavia was a uniquely independent and multi-ethnic, if imperfect, federation
that stood as a political and economic bridge in the Cold War. This was not acceptable
to the expanding European Community, especially newly united Germany, which had
begun a drive east to dominate its "natural market" in the Yugoslav
provinces of Croatia and Slovenia. By the time the Europeans met at Maastricht
in 1991, a secret deal had been struck; Germany recognized Croatia, and Yugoslavia
was doomed. In Washington, the US ensured that the struggling Yugoslav economy
was denied World Bank loans and the defunct Nato was reinvented as an enforcer.
At a 1999 Kosovo "peace" conference in France, the Serbs were told
to accept occupation by Nato forces and a market economy, or be bombed into submission.
It was the perfect precursor to the bloodbaths in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Posted by George V.
Poetry
ГАНЕ ТОДОРОВСКИ
ФУСНОТА БЕЗ ПОВОД
Ги оставивме мускулите на село,
ги оставивме легендите, ливадите, лошините,
зареците, клетвите, благословиите,
дотековме како пролетен порој-одненадеж,
за да му станеме квасец на градот,
за да му станеме озон на градот,
за да го помакедончиме Скопје-
Ој, МакедонијО, малодушна и кибарна,
кај ти е без нас алот!
Дотековме во град по весници, по струја,
по телевизори, по стадиони, по кина,
по бањи домашни, по чисти клозети, по тротоари,
дојдовме за да дрнчиме секој први
пред благајните,
дотековме, дотрчавме, доклинкавме,
Ој, Македононијо, кај ти е без нас алот!
Ој, Македонијо, градска и социјалистичка,
натема ти го селото обескозено,
обезлуѓено, како по чума поморија,
Ој, Македонијо, со пет епископи
и илјада икони испокрадени,
Ој, Македонијо, со сојузни министри
и судбини на периферија,
Ој, Македонијо, со јоги душеци, со терени за скијање,
со пленуми, со црква автокефална,
со тела самоуправни, со штедни книшки,
со приватни земјоделци, со коли половни,
со сметки девизни, со дефицитарно осигурување,
со први домати во републиката,
со четиринаесет академици, со безброј политичари,
со евтин зеленчук, со таан-алва,
со голем број дипломати и со ниски плати,
со две затворени граници, со трета хипокритска
и четврта замислена,
Ој, Македонијо, на конкурси и конгреси,
на два Илиндена и филмови нетитлувани на македонски,
Ој, Македонијо пленумска, синдикална
од лани уште синодална, автокефална,
колку ќе биде платен тутунот годинава?
Колку кредит ќе ветат банките?
Колку ли уште приватни крчми ќе отвориме?
Колку девизи надвор ќе депонираме?
Ој, Македонијо со голем број неписмени,
со Академија на науките и уметностите,
со беспрекорна грижа за народностите,
со мал тираж на весници, со многу пензии,
колку навистина ќе биде платен тутунот?
Ој, Македонијо, кај ти се селата Мијачки?
Кај се Помаците? Кај се ветросаа?
Кај се Егејците? Кај се витосаа?
Ој, Македонијо, распослана од Узбекистан
до Анадолија, Канада и Австралија,
од Балтик до Карпатите,
до немај-каде, до глувчина дупка
до канцелариите на бирократите.
Ој, Македонијо, не пати за Патакос,
многушто уште ќе доживееме!
Ој, Македонијо, пушти го родот нека се растура
небаре семето Хамово, небаре проколнатици.
Живите треба да живеат, мртвите ќе починуваат
а безработните ќе трагаат по работа.
Ој, Македонијо, науми почит кон мртвите,
збери ги коските на своите заљубеници,
коските Мисирковите, коските Цепенковите,
коските Ѓорче Петровите,
прибери ги во Скопје,
покрај Гоцевите, покрај најсветите,
и крени крај нив паметник
на неродениот Македонец.
Ој, Македонијо,
колку ли уште ни треба
за да те домакедончиме!
Posted by Tomce
From the Archives
America Abroad
By Strobe Talbott
Monday, Oct. 12, 1992
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,976668-1,00.html
GREECE IS REMINDING THE WORLD THAT IT TOO IS A Balkan country, the inhabitant of a region where history often induces hysteria.
In his policy toward the disaster zone that used to be Yugoslavia, Greek Prime Minister Constantine Mitsotakis is well on his way to deepening and widening the war there.
When Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina declared independence and appealed for international recognition last year, Macedonia had no choice but to follow suit. Otherwise it would have been swallowed up by Serbia.
A commission of the European Community established criteria for recognition, stressing respect for the rights of ethnic minorities. Macedonia passed the test. Its population is a mixture of nearly a dozen nationalities, but its political system is democratic and pluralistic.
The E.C. was quick to recognize the other breakaway republics, including Croatia, whose regime discriminates against local Serbs. But the Community stiff-armed Macedonia. Why? Because Greece objects to the name and exercised a veto in the councils of the E.C. Macedonia is the birthplace of Alexander the Great and the name of Greece's Northern Province. Therefore Athens thinks it has a 2,400-year-old trademark on the word.
Last week the Greek Foreign Minister Michalis Papaconstantinou was in Washington, and I had a chance to ask him about this whole business. He maintains that for Macedonia to "adopt a Greek name" is a "provocation" that "implies territorial claims against us."
Never mind that Macedonia's constitution explicitly disavows any such claim. Or that its army consists of about 6,000 ragtag troops armed with pistols and rifles, while Greece's is more than 25 times larger and is equipped with tanks, heavy artillery and jet fighters. Or that there is neither precedent nor justification in international law for one country to tell another what it can call itself.
Partly because the Greek position is so preposterous, the suspicion persists that the complaint about the name camouflages a revival of Greece's own age- old expansionistic ambitions. Several European governments have relayed to Washington reports that Mitsotakis has secretly discussed the partition of Macedonia with Serbia and perhaps with Albania and Bulgaria as well.
Papaconstantinou denies this charge "categorically: I have never seen any document or heard anything of this sort. We want them ((the Macedonians)) to exist ((as a separate state)); we want them as a buffer zone" between Greece and Serbia. "The authorities in Skopje ((the Macedonian capital)) can change their name to anything except Macedonia," and that will remove "a point of friction in the Balkans."
Another recent visitor to Washington -- Jane Miljovski, a minister in the Macedonian government -- offers a persuasive rebuttal: "As citizens of a newborn, almost defenseless nation, we are afraid that if we can be bullied into changing our name, we will next come under pressure to change our borders."
Privately, most Western officials acknowledge that Miljovski is right. Yet publicly the E.C. and the U.S. have, in effect, sided with Athens on the ground that there are other, overriding interests at stake.
As a member of NATO, which is undergoing a post-cold war identity crisis, and the E.C., which is trying to keep the Maastricht treaty from unraveling, Greece has extra leverage these days on both sides of the Atlantic. In the U.S. it has the additional help of the powerful Greek-American lobby.
To his credit, Mitsotakis is working to resolve the long-simmering dispute over Cyprus and reach a rapprochement with Turkey. He keeps hinting that if he budges on the Macedonian question, extreme nationalists in the Greek Parliament -- where he has only a two-vote majority -- will bring down his government and replace it with one that will undo his welcome diplomatic initiatives.
Meanwhile, under the pretext of complying with international sanctions against Serbia, Greece is blockading fuel shipments to Macedonia. As a result, factories there have had to shut down; crops are rotting in the fields; ambulances are sitting useless in hospital parking lots. "It's murder without bullets," says Miljovski.
Economic strangulation will soon lead to social unrest, which in turn could ignite an ethnic conflagration worse than the one in Bosnia. Because Macedonia has large Muslim minorities, civil war within that republic is more likely than anywhere else to escalate into a religious and regional war that could end up pitting Greece against any number of its neighbors, including Turkey. Where will the overriding interests of the U.S., the E.C. and NATO be then?
Having heard out the Greek Foreign Minister, I'm prepared to give him and Mitsotakis the benefit of the doubt on their motivation: they're not guilty of irredentism -- a desire to recover lands lost long ago -- but merely of paranoia and myopia. The situation has all the makings of tragedy, which Aristotle, another great Macedonian who was Alexander's teacher, defined as the result not of wickedness but of foolish pride.
Feedback
Hello Risto,
I love your articles and I hope you keep sending them to me!
Now, about my uncle that I am trying to find. Here is the following information on him. Can you help me locate him?
His name is Pano (Panagiotis) Tournidis. He was born around 1924 or 1927. He was living in Voden (Edessa) until 1941 and after he moved to Xeno Nero (spelling?). From there he joined the Resistance. His birth certificate and military history is in Lerin (Florina).
Please help me with any organizations that you know in order to locate him.
Niki K.
Dear readers,
If you know Pano Tournidis, please contact me at my e-mail rstefov@hotmail.com and let me know. I will pass the information to Niki.
Thank you, Risto…
RE: Early Phoenician Foundations (Scota and Gaedel -part 9) -last issue
Ellis: "....Unfortunately, the history of the
Phoenicians is shrouded in mystery, and it is only through mythology that
a tentative homeland in Scythia, modern Ukraine, is implied...."
Risto, this article and quote are both very interesting. Before I give
you my reply to the quote above, I'd like to bring up an earlier quote which
was a part of this series.
"In 'A General History Of Egypt', Manetho wrote: 'The kingdom
of Egypt (Etheria) is the most ancient of all kingdoms, except for the kingdom
of Scythia...."
(Scota and Gaythelos -part 2, Digest 25)
Reply:
Scythia is the territory of modern Russia and Ukraine.
The early Veneti (or "Slo-veneti"/"Slav") tribes
in the Southern Balkans were distant descendants of the "Russian" ("Scythian")
Sub-Saharan African immigrants. (See "The Proto-Slavs, Ancient Egyptians & Hebrews
Were Descendants of Sub-Saharan African Peoples", Digest 34).
From the Southern Balkans, later generations of Veneti progressed "inward
into Europe" and some even settled the "coastal regions of Anatolia",
the "aegean islands" and the nearby "coastal regions of the
middle-east" and north Africa.
Veneti tribes would have lived in the nearby "coastal regions of the
middle-east" well before Abraham and his family settled there at approximately
2,200 BC.
The later Phoenicians could well have been a mix of Veneti and Hebrews!
Veneti > Vene-ti > Vene > lives, ti > di > zeus. Lives Zeus.
Phoenician > Phoeni > "Veni" > lives, ci > "zhe" > zeus.
Lives Zeus.
By Vasko
Mycenaean Usage Of Linear A?
"At some later date, it is thought that the
Mycenaeans adopted the (Minoan) Linear A alphabet and adapted it for their
own language, and this became the Linear B script and language." (1)
-Mycenaeans & Linear B (Scota and Gaedel -part 10) -Macedonian Digest
#35
The above comment is not entirely accurate. The "real" Mycenaeans
and "real" Minoans (Cretans) were both proto-Slav Pelasgians whom spoke
dialects of the same or similar language. As such the "real" Mycenaeans
probably would have developed and used their own script (proto-Cyrillic).
"..... a more tenable scenario is that the royalty of the Mycenaeans
were not of the same culture or nationality as the common people. Indeed, they
may have been of exiled Hyksos-Egyptian stock, and had taken over the Mycenaean
people by force and become their de facto leaders." (2)
The (hybrid) Linear B language would have been strongly based on the "real" Mycenaean
language and some Hebrew words.
"Both the new script (Linear B) and the new language subsequently
supplanted the original Minoan script and language back in Knossos, Crete (from
around 1400 BC)." (4)
Mycenaean > Mycene > "My-ce" > "Mi-zhe" > "Mother
of Zeus".
Cretans > Crete > "C-re-te" > C>K>G > "G(eo)-re
(i) de" > The life giving Sun God Ra (and his son) zeus.
Pelasgians > Pe-la-s-gi > P>B>V > "Ve-la-s-gi" > Lives
Li, the life giving (and his son) zeus.
By Sash
RE: Mycenaeans & Linear B (Scota and Gaedel -part 10) -last issue
Risto, this was yet another very interesting article!
".....Michael Ventris, demonstrated that the Linear B was a syllabic
alphabet and that the tablets that had been discovered were written in an archaic
form of 'Greek'.....".
Reply:
It appears that the early "Greeks" were a mix of proto-Slavs and
Hebrews!
"At a much later date (around the 9th century BC), the "Greeks" then
adopted the simpler Phoenician script but maintained the same language.....".
(6)
Reply:
They did this because the Phoenicians themselves were a mix of proto-Slavs
and Hebrews!!!
".....this is not to say that the language of the Greeks is going to prove
to be a complete derivation of the Egyptian language, as Hebrew appears to be".
(10)
Reply:
The "Greek" language was heavily construed from the indigenous
proto-Slavic!
By Vasko
E-mail(s) of the Month
From: Eleftheria P.
Stefov,
You must be very angry man against the Greeks. Cut
the crap out, you sound idiotic and only idiots who never herd of
Christ will believe you. I am ashamed to relate to your blood.
Macedonia is Greece. Live with it. I just came back from Macedonia Greece
and see nothing written in my Grand Mothers Macedonian language.
Everything is in Greek fool! You make the Bonavina Bardarska look
stupid because of an idiot like you! You just shout your mouth and runs like
a diarrhea.
Sorry no connection with Alexander the Great. I am not fake. I love my
grand mother and she came from Bardarska, I am Proud. So screw You
Stefov Diarrhea.
Quotable Quotes
I would say that since the 1830's (maybe since the Renaissance?)
Greece has been accumulating and perfecting a methodology of invention,
coached and improved over 150 years - through the antagonisms created by
mass producing a perspective of itself at odds with every word, every village
and every custom of the land.
Members of the E.U need to ask themselves some simple questions. When it
comes to the Macedonians - who is informing them? If it’s a Greek point of
view – it’s without doubt going to be a lie. A sophisticated lie, but a lie
nonetheless. (Paul)
Question/Answers for the Readers
From the Un-answered Questions File
Humour
Zdravo Risto,
I hope you have a laugh.
Regards Goran
MAKEDONSKA RABOTA :)))
You know you're Maco when...
* Your old man says "Jas ke te fiksam!"
* Your parents have an argument and your dad yells "Jas pak sum krif!"
* You cough and your mum says "Pak goli da odite!" (Not that you
ever did)
* You start and end every sentence by saying "Zimi majka" just
so people believe you.
* Your dad insists on receiving a discount if "I pay cash".
* You can't translate your dad's superannuation statement and his comeback
is "Za djabe te shkolovav!"
* Your parents think that musicians, pop stars, people who have body piercing
or tattoos, indeed that most Australians are "drunk people"
* Your parents congratulate newly weds by wishing that they will give birth
to a son the following year - giving birth to a baby girl is considered a
consolation
* Your parents have got a $20,000 kitchen yet they cook in the garage
* You've got a plastic cover across the hallway so you don't dirty the carpet
* Your parents are constantly saying "ogan da te izgori"
* The whole family has to "isprati the gosti" and then they talk
outside for another hour or so waking up half the neighbourhood
* You have 3 rooms in your house that you can't even step in and use because
those rooms are just for show
* You have 75 "kebina" on your bed and couches
* You have at least one "vezana slika" in your house
* You're mum says "Da ne odish nadvor so kosata vodena - ke nastinis"
* You're mum calls ya "Nenormalen eden
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If you have something to say or if you want to know something, this is the forum for you. Please write to us and we will publish your thoughts in this Digest. Try and keep it simple and brief, no longer than a page. Please send your comments to Risto Stefov at rstefov@hotmail.com.
“From the readers for the readers”
A Monthly free of charge electronic Digest for fair use only
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