The Macedonian Digest
“From the readers for the readers”
Edition 42 – June 2009
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Editor’s Notes
IMPORTANT MESSAGE
MHRMI and AMHRC Call on Macedonians Abroad to Report Discrimination by
Greece
Toronto,
Canada and Melbourne, Australia - May 10, 2009 - Following the publicity of Canadian-Macedonians'
discrimination at the hands of the Greek Consulate in Toronto (see www.mhrmi.org/news/2009/may05_e.asp), Macedonian Human Rights
Movement International (MHRMI) and the Australian Macedonian Human Rights
Committee (AMHRC) call on Macedonians in the diaspora to contact our organizations
to report on similar difficulties they have faced.
We ask
for specific cases of discrimination by Greek Consulates and Embassies worldwide
and border officials when trying to enter Greece.
Various
governments, including Canada and the Czech Republic, have already confronted
Greece about its blacklisting of ethnic Macedonians. Our organizations will
continue to press this issue to government officials, international courts
of human rights, media and other NGO's so it gains worldwide attention.
Greece
consistently proves that it acts only in its xenophobic self-interest and
will persecute ethnic Macedonians, and other minorities, regardless of where
they live. MHRMI and AMHRC call on the international community to force Greece
to immediately end this persecution and to finally recognize its large Macedonian
minority.
###
Macedonian
Human Rights Movement International (MHRMI) has been active on human and
national rights issues for Macedonians and other oppressed peoples since
1986. For more information, please visit www.mhrmi.org, or contact MHRMI at 416-850-7125,
or info@mhrmi.org.
Founded
in 1984, the Australian Macedonian Human Rights Committee (AMHRC) has been
working towards achieving human rights for Macedonians and other oppressed
minorities. For more information, please visit www.macedonianhr.org.au, or contact AMHRC at +61
3 9460 2910, or mail@macedonianhr.org.au.
Feature Stories
Memoir of a Visit to Australia by Macedonian Human Rights Activists from Egej and Pirin
http://www.australianmacedonianweekly.com/edition/1070_21042009/070_english.html
From March 24-31, 2009 in Melbourne, the Australian
Macedonian Human Rights Committee (AMHRC) was privileged to have hosted
a visit by Macedonian Human Rights activists from Greece and Bulgaria.
Included in this visit were Mr. Natse Parisis and Mr. Dimitri Ioannou,
as representatives of the AMHRC’s partner organisation in Greece, Vinozhito,
and Mr. Stoyko Stoykov, representing the AMHRC’s partner organisation in
Bulgaria, OMO "Ilinden" PIRIN. These activists, and their respective
organisations, are at the forefront of advocating for and protecting Macedonian
minority rights in Greece and Bulgaria. We are also delighted to note that
this visit was carried out in co- ordination with Macedonian Human Rights
Movement International (MHRMI) based in Toronto, Canada - the fourth partner
in what has been a bastion of truly internationally united Macedonian co-operation
for over two decades now.
It gives the AMHRC, MHRMI, Vinozhito and OMO "Ilinden" PIRIN,
great satisfaction to report that this visit was a resounding success. All of
the aims and objectives of the visit were met, and our visiting Macedonian Human
Rights activists, were able to return to their respective positions in Greece
and Bulgaria with the knowledge that awareness of, and support for the human
rights of Macedonian minorities in Greece and Bulgaria, increased significantly
as a result of the visit.
Primarily, the purpose of this visit was to give the Macedonian community
in Australia an opportunity to gain a better understanding of the work undertaken
by Vinozhito and OMO "Ilinden" PIRIN on behalf of ethnic Macedonian
minorities in Greece and Bulgaria. Given the concern of the Macedonian community
in Australia for Macedonian minorities in Europe, this visit was an opportunity
to inform Macedonians in Australia of the ongoing breaches of fundamental human
rights experienced by ethnic Macedonians in these countries. It was also an opportunity
for Vinozhito and OMO "Ilinden" PIRIN to seek further long-term support
for their activities from the Australian Macedonian community.
With these aims in mind the AMHRC designed a program for the visit that
would maximise the opportunity for the visiting activists to engage with Macedonian
community leaders and concerned Macedonians in Australia. Some of the highlights
were as follows:
On Wednesday March 25 our guests were given a rest in order to recover from
their long journey to Melbourne. However on Thursday morning they were hard
at work. The day began with a 9.00am visit by our guests accompanied by a
delegation from the AMHRC, to the Doncaster (a suburb located in Melbourne’s
east) Macedonian Pensioners Association. There must have been an attendance
of over 400 elderly Macedonians and they gave our visitors a rousing reception.
Natse Parisis appears to be a firm believer in what some social philosophers
have termed the "Perspectivist" viewpoint on social forms. He demonstrated
this by explaining that moves towards European integration will lead to greater
contact amongst Macedonians throughout the Balkans. He very pertinently pointed
out, that OMO "Ilinden" PIRIN and Vinozhito are already members
of the same European political party – the European Free Alliance (EFA).
The response from the crowd, was rapturous, they obviously connected with
Natse’s "perspectivism"; and why shouldn’t they have? We, at any
rate, can not think of a single reason. The gathering ended with generous
promises from the elders, of support for the AMHRC’s Macedonian Minorities
Support Fund. A very productive beginning.
From Doncaster, the AMHRC delegation together with its special guests raced
downtown to the studios of 3ZZZ (a major multicultural radio station) for an
interview with Itso Naidovski, the host of a popular Macedonian radio hour. Understandably,
the interview filled the entire program and Natse, Stoyko and Dimitri excelled
in answering questions that required details beyond standard generalisations.
A key point was reached when all agreed, that the Greek argument in connection
with the name dispute, that is the so-called "confusion" argument,
remains nonsensical when it is noted that the constitutional name of the Republic
of Macedonia already obviously possesses a pre-fix, as does Greece’s "Province
of Macedonia" – thus there should be no difficulty in distinguishing the
two entities, especially as one is a state and the other, a province.
After departing from the studios of 3ZZZ, the already famously mobile "Delegation",
made their way to the premises of the Macedonian Orthodox Community of Melbourne
and Victoria, located in Melbourne’s outer northern suburb of Epping. Here, a
late lunch was provided and an emotional meeting took place between a "Delegation" and
the Association of Macedonian Child Refugees (Detsa Begaltsi). Tears of joy flowed,
as Dimitri in particular, spoke about the renaissance of Macedonian culture currently
taking place in Greece. Also here, the AMHRC representatives took the opportunity
to explain about the preparations taking place for a class action against the
Greek state – that is in relation to the discriminatory laws maintained by Greece
against ethnic Macedonian refugees from the Greek Civil War (1946-1949). Crucial
to this discussion was the point that we would need to participate in the action
involving not just a demand for property compensation, but also a restoration
of citizenship. Mr. Yanko Kalinchev, president of the refugee association, responded
by pledging support for the AMHRC’s initiatives in this regard.
This very successful day was ended by a dinner with the visitors and the
AMHRC. The restaurant was especially chosen for Stoyko, who had a long burning
desire to try kangaroo. It was not that easy to locate a restaurant for the purpose
– contrary to popular belief, there are not many restaurants in Australia that
serve up the national symbol. We are not sure if there is another nation-state
that encourages consumption of its national symbol; nor were we sure in the end,
about whether Stoyko’s desire, considering his facial expression, might not have
been better left unfulfilled...perhaps it was the particular chef’s fault?
On Friday the 27th of March the AMHRC held an all day Human Rights conference
in downtown Melbourne. Aside from the AMHRC and the visiting activists, the conference
was attended by representatives of numerous Macedonian community groups throughout
Australia. These people need to be noted, as they all made useful contributions
to the day’s proceedings: Victor Bivell (Pollitecon Publications – an Australian
based publisher of books to do with matters Macedonian); Gligor Apoleski (a long
time, Sydney based, Macedonian activist); Igor Aleksandrov (Macedonian Orthodox
Community of Sydney, New South Wales); Steve Kostoff and Tom Pisarcoff (Macedonian
Orthodox Community of Adelaide and South Australia); Yote Kyandovski and Jim
Bivoltsis (Macedonian Orthodox Commmunity of Perth and Western Australia); Sam
Ristovski (Macedonian Orthodox Community of Melbourne and Victoria); Vlado Trpchevski
(Macedonian Orthodox Community in Sydenham); Yanko Kalinchev and Lazo Kristov
(Macedonian Child Refugees); Itso Naidovski (3ZZZ); Margarita Vasileva (SBS Macedonian
Radio Program); Ljupco Stankovski (editor of the Australian Macedonian Weekly
and Igor Pavlovski (editor of Today, Macedonian weekly newspaper). Also, we would
like to send our thanks to Chris Angelkov (Macedonian Orthodox Community of Perth
and Western Australia), who, although not present, was very helpful. The agenda
for the conference was designed to advance an understanding of the status of
Macedonians in Greece and Bulgaria, and to discuss strategies to protect and
promote the Human Rights of Macedonians throughout the world. The day began with
Dimitri and Stoyko each giving highly detailed hour long power point presentations,
that created much food for thought and discussion. Impressive was the news of
the considerable expansion of Vinozhito branches in eastern Aegean Macedonia
and OMO "Ilinden" PIRIN’s legal plans to continue to challenge Bulgaria’s
unlawful de-registration of their party.
After a lunch that was served in the conference room, members of the AMHRC
(Jason Kambovski, Sasha Nachkovski, Vasko Nastevski, Dr. Chris Popov, John
Tsiglev and George Vlahov) informed attendees of their current and ongoing
activities. These, among others, include lobbying of the Australian government
and involvement in legal action on behalf of Macedonian refugees from the
Greek Civil War (Detsa Begaltsi). It is worth noting that the AMHRC has accepted
the task of organising Australian-Macedonian participation in the class action
being prepared against Greece. The talks were quite rapid and internet messages
even came in at this point from the AMHRC’s International Coordinator in
Skopje, David Vitkov and also from MHRMI president, Bill Nicholov; the world
really seemed to shrink for a transient moment and it set off some staccato
typing from the AMHRC’s Media Liason Officer, Lyubitsa Durlovska... a pause
was needed.
After a tea break, a constructive open forum discussion ensued. A key point
was reached when it was accurately pointed out by Igor Alexandrov, that although
Vinozhito and OMO "Ilinden" PIRIN are technically political parties;
support provided for their activities cannot be considered an act of partisan
party politics, for the fundamental basis of their activity involves a struggle
for basic human rights, rights that in the West, are regarded as essential and
are protected by international law. This was no surprise, as Igor represents
a body that has been generously supporting OMO "Ilinden" PIRIN’s newspaper,
Narodna Volya. It was after this that the community organisations from Melbourne,
Sydenham, Sydney and Perth made out substantial contributions to the AMHRC’s
Macedonian Minorities Support Fund. Promises of similar contributions were also
made by the representatives from Adelaide. Lastly, it must be noted that Igor
Pavlovski and Ljupco Stankovski, made considerable contributions to the Minorities’
Fund and all of this kept the AMHRC’s financial managers, Tase Filipov and Michael
Kochev, quite, but happily, busy.
The AMHRC would like here to once more take this
opportunity to thank the visiting interstate delegates, who travelled from
as far as Sydney, Adelaide and Perth to attend. The positive contributions
made by all attendees ensured that the conference was a great success,
with many important issues discussed and strategies formulated for the
effective advocacy of Macedonian human rights in Australia and abroad.
The following evening, Saturday 28th. March, the AMHRC held its annual
dinner function at Neret Receptions in Melbourne. This event was important for
two reasons. Primarily, it gave the visiting activists an opportunity to engage
with the wider Macedonian community. Secondly, the function celebrated the 25th
Anniversary of the formation of the AMHRC. More than 400 Macedonians (the event
was a sell-out) were in attendance to hear the visiting activists talk about
the human rights struggles of the Macedonian minorities in Greece and Bulgaria.
The activists were very well received by the appreciative audience. Indeed, the
visitors were ‘swamped’ like rock stars – at one point Natse had to be ‘rescued’,
as he found it impossible to make his way back to his chair...
The function demonstrated that, 25 years after the formation of the AMHRC,
the wider Macedonian community is still very supportive of it and the important
work it undertakes on behalf of Macedonian minorities. The AMHRC demonstrated
its appreciation for this support in speeches delivered by Vasko Nastevski and
George Vlahov. They also emphasised the internationally co-operative nature of
the AMHRC’s work, as it is carried out, hand in hand with MHRMI.
Apart from a special Macedonian dance, ordered by some members for the
AMHRC and the visitors, the highlight of the evening was the auctioning of the
EFA flag – skillfully conducted by Jason Kambovski. There were gasps as Lazo
Genis ensured his ownership of the prized symbol, with a bid of $2,500.
On the following Sunday the AMHRC held a public meeting at the Preston (an
inner-northern Melbourne suburb) Makedonia Social Club. Again, this was a well
attended meeting and was a further opportunity for the activists to engage in
a more intimate manner, with the wider Macedonian community.
A significant point that was made by Stoyko, Dimitri and Natse at various
times on the day, was that as citizens of, and taxpayers in Bulgaria and Greece,
there is no question of seeking rights from the Republic of Macedonia – this
responsibility belongs rather to Bulgaria and Greece. An important matter that
needed clarification, as some members of the community still find it difficult
to separate the ethno- cultural, from the politico-legal, citizenship realm.
The meeting wound up with an appeal for new members to join the AMHRC’s
Minorities fund and we apologise if this success story is starting to bore our
readers, but the fact is, this appeal met with a more than decent response -
Gotse Stefanovski’s and Dr. Suzanna Kotevski’s sizeable contributions, need special
mention here.
Monday 30th March, was a day allocated for media interviews
– not all of which took place. Greek radio programs declined to accept the opportunity,
as did "Neos Kosmos" (New World – the major Greek- Australian newspaper,
with a very large circulation). However, sitting with Natse and Dimitri, early
on Monday morning at an inner-city Melbourne cafe, we noticed a gentleman a few
tables away, reading the Neos Kosmos. ‘Hawkeye’ Parisis quickly spotted that
Vino’s visit had made the front page! A copy was quickly purchased and to the
surprise of all, it was found that the account was factual...it even quoted accurately
from the recent U.N. Report that recommended that Greece give up on trying to
argue that there is no such thing as an ethnic Macedonian minority in Greece.
Later, Stoyko was interviewed by the Bulgarian program on SBS radio (the
major state sponsored, Australia wide multicultural radio station). Upon being
told by the interviewer that Bulgaria was a model democracy, Stoyko responded
by concisely re-counting facts to do with the unlawful de-registration of OMO "Ilinden" PIRIN
and these, beyond leaving the interviewer in obvious shock, drove her to change
tack and begin asking Stoyko about Melbourne’s landscape...
In the afternoon, unfortunately some mainstream journalists pleaded unforseen
emergencies and as our visitors were due to leave the next day, time could not
be found for re-scheduling. None-the-less, the day ended on a positive note,
with an interview between our visitors and Margarita Vasileva and Violetta Yovanovska,
hosts of the Macedonian program on SBS radio. As usual, these women came prepared
and the final result was a nuanced affair that brought the best out of our guests.
Tuesday 31st March, D-day; departure. We won’t partake of sentimentality,
at the airport, there were some hugs and it was thanks and goodbye.
The AMHRC would like to take this opportunity to thank all those involved
in making these events such a success. The large numbers of people attending
these events and the general community involvement is representative of the ongoing
concern Macedonians in Australia have for the human rights of ethnic Macedonians
in Greece and Bulgaria. It is also indicative of the continuing support the AMHRC
has from the Macedonian community for its human rights advocacy work, and recognition
that the support (financial and technical) the AMHRC gives to Macedonian minority
representatives such as Vinozhito and OMO "Ilinden" PIRIN, is essential
to ensuring the effectiveness of these organisations.
To be clear, the AMHRC, along with its counterpart organisation in Canada,
MHRMI (Macedonian Human Rights Movement International), provide regular and substantial
aid to Vinozhito and OMO "Ilinden" PIRIN. As was acknowledged by the
visiting activists, without this support, it is likely that neither group would
be able to undertake its important work on behalf of the Macedonian minorities
in Greece and Bulgaria. It is important that the Macedonian communities in both
Australia and Canada recognise this fact by providing ongoing support to both
the AMHRC and MHRMI.
Founded in 1984, the Australian Macedonian Human Rights Committee (AMHRC) has been working towards achieving human rights for Macedonians and other oppressed minorities. For more information, please visit www.macedonianhr.org.au, or contact AMHRC at +61 3 9460 2910, or mail@macedonianhr.org.au.
Macedonian Human Rights Movement International (MHRMI) has been active on human and national rights issues for Macedonians and other oppressed peoples since 1986. For more information, please visit www.mhrmi.org, or contact MHRMI at 416-850-7125, or info@mhrmi.org.
Founded in 1995, EFA-Rainbow is the political party of the Macedonian minority in Greece and is a member of the European Free Alliance and the Federal Union of European Nationalities. For more information, please visit www.florina.org, or contact EFA-Rainbow at 0030 23850 46548, or rainbow@florina.org.
Founded in 1999, OMO "Ilinden" PIRIN is the political
party of the Macedonian minority in Bulgaria and is a member of the European
Free Alliance. For more information, please visit www.omoilindenpirin.org.
Greece; a perfect example of barbaric country?
27 01 2009
http://oceanospotamos.wordpress.com/2009/01/27/greece-a-perfect-example-of-barbaric-country/
Professor Victor Friedman is one of the world’s foremost experts on Balkan languages, and has been studying them for almost four decades, since 1993 as a linguist at the University of Chicago.
Professor Friedman has a special place in his heart for Macedonia, which he first visited in 1971. This year finds him back in the country, as the recipient of a Fulbright-Hays Grant from the US Department of Education and a research grant from the John Simon Guggenheim Foundation. (All opinions expressed herein are his own and do not necessarily represent those of the funding organizations.)
Balkanalysis.com Director Christopher Deliso caught up with Professor Friedman recently in Skopje for an interview. Their engrossing and wide-ranging conversation, covering everything from linguistic history, politics and lobbying to national identity and multiculturalism, is reproduced below for our readers.
Christopher Deliso: Victor, thanks for taking the time to discuss your ideas and your research, it’s a great privilege.
Victor Friedman: Thank you, I’m always happy to speak about the Balkans and Macedonia.
Reminiscences
CD: Victor, the first time you visited Macedonia was in 1971. A lot must have changed since then.
VF: Indeed it has. When I first came here, during the height of Yugoslavia, many houses did not have telephones, and I recall you had to wait for 2 years to get one… even in 1994 when I was here for 3 months it was impossible for me to get one in the apartment where I was staying. Things have improved considerably since those days. And some of the damage from the 1963 earthquake damage was also still evident in Skopje.
CD: Even in the center?
VF: Even in the center. A lot of the new buildings were already completed, but there were still some piles of rubble near the Hotel Turist, today’s Best Western on the Ulica Makedonija pedestrian street. Sewer lines were being laid in the Stara Charshija (the bazaar quarter in the old part of town) so you had to cross some streets on boards. And there were an awful lot of buildings still housed in purpose-built ‘barracks.’
CD: Some of which still remain, for housing and offices.
VF: Probably so. And back then, the new main campus of University Ss Cyril & Methodius of Skopje hadn’t been built yet, and the new building for MANU (the Macedonian Academy of Sciences & Arts) hadn’t been rebuilt yet. It was housed in a mansion that I was told had once been owned by a Vlah merchant, and later served as the Italian embassy. There was one shopping center that just opened up in 1973.
CD: You mean the famous GTC (Gradski Trgovski Center)?
VF: Indeed, the GTC. And there were many ordinary consumer goods you couldn’t get here. People went to Thessaloniki or Belgrade to shop for many items.
CD: Interesting. Many Macedonians proudly claim to me that in Yugoslav times they were on a much higher social and economic level than the Greeks.
VF: Actually, the Greeks and Yugoslavs were about on the same level then. With hard currency, you could get a good rate on the drachma. But the difference was that Greece never had Communism, and in the 1970s Greece already had American style-supermarkets; one had to go to Thessaloniki or the US Embassy PX in Belgrade to get peanut butter.
Fewer consumer goods were available in Macedonia than in
wealthier parts of Yugoslavia, of course. In 1973, for example, meat was
hard to find. I was told that the price for meat was better in Serbia and
all the meat went there. On the other hand, public sociability was more
vibrant and relaxed. In mild weather all of Skopje went to what was then
Marshal Tito Square for korzo (corso). In those days, Skopje wasn’t as
big as it is now, and you could meet anyone you
wanted to see there. It was also a great way to make new friends.
The Project of the Day
CD: So how about your project that brings you here this time. What is that about?
VF: My project investigates the continuing existence of multilingualism in Skopje.
CD: That’s an interesting topic. I suspect you are spending a lot of time in the Stara Charshija?
VF: Indeed. Among the craftsmen’s shops, tea houses, mosques, churches and open markets there, that is one of the best places in the city to find different social groups and languages rubbing elbows on a daily basis- Macedonian, Albanian, Turkish, Romani, even some Aromanian and Greek. My project studies the way that these languages are interacting today.
CD: And this idea was something you used to get funding for the project?
VF: Yes. As a linguist, I had to present my case, and the argument that won funding from the Fulbright-Hays (Department of Education) and Guggenheim is that Macedonia in general, and Skopje especially, represents the last place in the Balkans where the conditions that created the Balkan linguistic league are still present to some extent. So I wanted to study this and document its continuing existence today.
Grammatical Multilingualism
CD: ‘Balkan linguistics league’- what do you mean by this?
VF: Right. At the beginning of the 20th century, in the
Balkans you had a range of diverse languages on the same territory- the
Slavic languages, Greek, Albanian, local dialects of Turkish, three kinds
of Romani, Romance languages like Romanian, Aromanian, and Megleno-Romanian
and, before the Holocaust, Ladino (or Judezmo) - the language of the Sephardic
Jews, a language derived from medieval Spanish with additions from Hebrew
and local languages that too
shape after the expulsion of the Jews from Spain in 1492.
In particular, the Slavic, Romance, Albanian and Greek languages share a lot of grammatical features that are the result of mutual multilingualism.
CD: Grammatical multilingualism? I can understand vocabulary, loan-words, shared by co-existing languages, but what examples are there of grammar influence in the Balkan languages?
VF: The replacement of infinitives by analytic subjunctive clauses using native material is an example of a shared grammatical feature among Balkan languages.
CD: Meaning the particle, like ‘ne’ in Greek and ‘da’ in Macedonian?
VF: Yes. And what is really interesting is that even the Balkan dialects of Turkish, but only the Balkan ones, replace the infinitive with an optative- a verb form like a subjunctive but without a particle.
Linguistic Developments
CD: Wow- that’s fascinating.
VF: Yes, the Balkans are very interesting. We know what Ancient Greek, Latin, and Old Church Slavonic, and Sanskrit look liked, and we have Turkic texts going back to the 8th century. We know what these languages looked like in the early medieval period. For Albanian, our oldest significant texts are from the early modern period. We know these changes, these grammatical influences, were taking place in the late medieval and early Ottoman periods (although some are older in some languages). It was really in the Ottoman period that the Balkan languages as we know them today came to resemble one another.
CD: Was this line of investigation something that had been applied elsewhere, or received attention from linguists for a long time?
VF: Well there was some talk in the 19th century of that sort of thing, but in the 19th century, when modern linguistics first took shape with the discovery of the regularity of sound change, most linguists were spending their time trying to find out how languages genealogically resembled one another.
CD: Genealogically, meaning finding a common ancestor, yes? Was this a result of the influence of Darwinism, some sort of intellectual zeitgeist of the time?
VF: Well, some people might tell you that, but most accurately we can say that it coincided with Darwinism and similar trends. But what got people really interested in the genealogical approach to linguistics was the British conquest of India.
CD: Really! Very unusual.
VF: Well think about it: you had these cultured British gentlemen, who had been raised on the full classical education of Latin and ancient Greek, coming to this land of supposed primitives and savages- and getting completely blown away by the resemblances between Sanskrit, which they came across for the first time, and Latin and Greek.
The Balkans: A Special Place
CD: So then, to return to the former topic, can I ask whether this grammatical influence of different languages within a specific terrain is a rare thing? Do you find it in other parts of Europe like, say, Switzerland, with its four official languages (French, German, Italian, and Romansch) as well as the linguistically distinct Swiss German?
VF: Not to the same extent as in the Balkans. French, German and those languages had specific influences of different kinds on each other, but the ordinary populations were not necessarily multilingual until relatively recently, and even today each language in Switzerland is influenced significantly by the usage in the neighboring nation-states where they are standardized.
CD: So what was it about the Balkans that made it so amenable to multilingualism?
VF: Well, going back to Ottoman times, we could consider it partially an issue of pragmatism for city dwellers, traders and so on, for whom knowing other languages was directly beneficial to their livelihoods and businesses, with such diverse populations living together.
It’s also interesting to note that most linguistic studies of multilingualism today are being carried out in post-colonial areas of the world, or among immigrant communities living in wealthy countries. My research here in the Balkans is unusual in this context because this is a region with an endemic, long-existing, relatively stable and uninterrupted history of multilingualism.
Multilingualism as a Culture Value: A Telling Absence
VF: At the same time, multilingualism here was also a matter of a common cultural value, one shared by speakers of all the Balkan languages, except Greek. But we should also note that this language-ideological resistance on the part of Greek did not keep the language from being influenced by those with which it was in contact.
CD: Really! That’s unusual. How do we know Greek lacks this value?
VF: One telling aspect, from a linguist’s point of view, is that Greek is the only language in the Balkans that does not have a proverb to the effect that ‘languages are wealth’ or ‘the more languages you know, the more people you’re worth.’ All other Balkan languages have some such saying that indicates a value placed on multilingualism.
CD: Are we sure this is true, that Greek lacks such a value? Or could someone just invent one for the sake of it?
VF: To the best of my knowledge, there is no such expression. And over the years I have asked every Greek friend of mine for such a proverb and not one of them has come up with one. And I am talking about linguists, experts on the Balkans who are not subjective.
An example I recall comes from the introduction to a recently published book on the minority languages of Greece (which is, alas, still a highly political topic in that nation-state). The author was talking about Arvanitika, the Albanian dialect/language of speakers who migrated to Greece a millennium or so ago. The introduction was written by a respected Greek linguist… he wrote that among the Arvanites, and probably, emphasis mine, among the other Balkan peoples, there is this expression of languages as wealth. But he didn’t know of any such expression in Greek.
Confusion and Denial
CD: By the term ‘Arvanitika,’ you mean medieval Albanian?
VF: Most precisely, it refers to the Albanian dialects of Greece that separated from the main body of Tosk Albanian 600-1000 years ago. The dialects were spoken on many Greek islands, the Peloponnese, and in Attica and Central Greece. Greeks don’t like to admit it, but they have had large Albanian-speaking populations for a very long time, not just post-Communist economic migrants. While these dialects are now moribund owing to hegemonistic Greek language policies, they can still be encountered in places like Livadhia.
CD: An interesting detail-
VF: And I recall one vignette: many years ago at a conference, I met a woman who was Greek, but she knew Arvanitika. So we communicated, I in standard modern Albanian, she in Arvanitika. It was close enough to communicate.
I asked her, ‘how do you know you this language’? As a linguist, it was an interesting detail. She replied, ‘well, I learned it from my grandmother.’
CD: Which would have meant she was of partial Arvanitika descent?
VF: Well, I asked innocently enough – I wasn’t really aware of the politics at the time – ‘why would a Greek learn Albanian if they weren’t Albanian’? She was somewhat confused.
The next morning, however, when I saw this woman she said to me: ‘I couldn’t sleep all night thinking about what you said.’ She was a bit upset. ‘I thought about it,’ she said, ‘and no! I am Greek! I am Greek!’ It was the last time I tried to suggest to a Greek that if they learned another language at home, it was because that was the native language of the speaker.
The Nationalist Trap and State Policies
CD: (Laughing) on that note, let’s talk about the Macedonia issue now. Greece denies the Macedonian identity, referring to ancient history. What do you think about this?
VF: Unfortunately, with independence, some Macedonians fell into the nationalist trap set by Greece. The Greeks came up with a line claiming the Macedonians could not claim the name Macedonia unless they were descended from the Ancient Macedonians.
Well, no one can reasonably claim to be descended from the Ancient Macedonians, but this became part of the argument, instead of other more pertinent things. And so the issue has remained. But the Greeks have been denying the existence of Macedonia and the Macedonians all along.
CD: From your perspective, how far back does this go as a state policy? To the breakdown of Yugoslavia, or further?
VF: Oh, it’s been that way ever since modern Macedonians
began to call themselves Macedonians. The Greeks have been denying the
existence of its Macedonian minority since acquiring Greek Macedonia at
the Treaty of Bucharest following the Second Balkan War (1913), except
for a brief period in the 1920s. In 1957, an otherwise respectable Greek
linguist named N. Andriotis published a polemical and, from an academic
point of view, deeply flawed booklet entitled
‘The Confederate state of Skopje and Its Language’ – referring, of course,
to Macedonia and Macedonian within Socialist Yugoslavia.
CD: This is very interesting to me, because as you know, many Greeks today refer to the whole country of Macedonia by the name of the capital, and the people as ‘Skopjeans.’ So they were using this reference even then?
VF: Of course. But already in the 19th century, Macedonian speakers were calling themselves Macedonians (Makedontsi), their language, ‘Makedonski.’ This is documented.
CD: But they were also calling themselves ‘Bulgarians’ then.
VF: Yes, some were, and speakers identified as Serbs or Greeks or Turks, depending on religious loyalties, but most of the time, speakers called themselves Christians or Turks (Muslims).
CD: Because the Ottoman system used religion as the main factor in classifying its subjects?
VF: Yes, but not just because of the Ottomans- religion was more important then as well. It was the late 18th/early 19th century ideas, developed from the French Revolution that led to nation-state ideologies.
Organized Obliteration?
VF: But even well before this, some have made a case – and this refers again to the social resistance against other languages – that the Greeks have been trying to destroy Slavic culture in this area since the Middle Ages.
CD: ‘Greeks,’ meaning the Byzantines?
VF: Yes. For example, John Fine in his book The Early Medieval Balkans (p. 220) cites Vladimir Moshin, who published an article in 1963 in a Russian academic journal in which he made the argument that the reason there are no Slavic language manuscripts from this region prior to 1180 is owing to their deliberate destruction by the Greeks/Byzantines.
CD: Really!
VF: Up until his article, people had been saying it was
the Turks who destroyed everything. But there are Greek-language manuscripts
from this period that survived in this region, whereas Slavic ones did
not. And it is not as if the latter were not being composed in an organized
way; the Ohrid literary school which began in the late 9th century is just
one place where manuscripts were being written in large numbers. Which
means that Greeks have been trying to destroy
Slavic culture and literacy for a very long time.
CD: Many Bulgarian politicians and academics claim that Macedonian is just a dialect of Bulgarian. What do you say on this topic?
VF: The answer is of course Macedonian is a distinct language. It is similar to Bulgarian, but just as Swedish and Norwegian are similar languages, but separate, so, too, are Macedonian and Bulgarian.
CD: Why?
VF: Both sets of languages have different dialectal bases. And for this reason it is not at all like the case of Moldovan and Romanian. The Moldovan standard language is not based on Moldovan dialects; it is based on the same Wallachian dialects as standard Romanian.
In the case of Macedonian, however, the standard language is based on the dialects spoken in the west-central geographical area defined by Veles, Bitola, Prilep and Kichevo. It is not identical with any specific dialect, and has elements from the eastern ones as well. Standard Bulgarian is not based on a single dialect, but is based on eastern Bulgarian dialects, from Veliko Tarnovo to the Danube and further east.
CD: Why were these specific dialectal areas chosen, in both cases?
VF: What happened was that in the 19th century there were two major centers of literacy and prosperity- one in southwestern Macedonia, the other in northeastern Bulgaria. The Bulgarians decided to impose those eastern dialects from the area north of the Stara Planina range, east of the dialectal division called the yat line, and south of the Danube, on the whole state.
CD: What was the thinking? Was this an organized campaign for specific reasons?
VF: We’re talking about the phenomenon of intellectuals fighting over what’s going to happen when they get their own state- just like with the Congress of Manastir (Bitola) in 1908, when the Albanians were worrying about agreeing on a common Albanian alphabet before there was an Albanian state (in 1912). The Bulgarians didn’t have a state until the Russo-Turkish War of 1878.
CD: What about the situation in Greece at the time, where different propagandists were at work from different sides? Were these dialects considered Bulgarian or Macedonian, or both? What can linguists reconstruct today?
VF: There are a number of dialectal studies. Some speakers considered themselves Macedonians, some Bulgarians, and some Greeks, and some Turks, depending, in part, on religious affiliation (Exarchist, Patriarchist, and Muslim for the last three at that time). Firsthand accounts are available in some books published in, e.g., Australia and Poland, and Canada, but the Aegean Macedonians who were victims of Greek abuse at that time are mostly dead.
The generation that suffered during the Greek Civil War (1946-49) however, is still alive. The ones who are still alive often do not want to tell their stories because they are afraid or the memories are too painful. Even for curious foreigners, if you go to Greece to do research on Macedonian, you run the risk that the police will take your tapes, destroy them, and kick you out for expressing an interest in what is still a taboo topic for them.
CD: Really! Are there some examples?
VF: Yes, and it happened to a colleague of mine who was doing dissertation research in a village whose name I will omit to protect the inhabitants.
CD: aha, the village of… near Kastoria?
VF: Yes, and precisely for this reason it is one of the most interesting Macedonian dialects, because it is the most southwestern Macedonian dialect. It is transitional between eastern and western types of Macedonian. And the Greek police confiscated the tapes of this linguist and interfered with his research. However, he did finish his dissertation on this dialect. In fact, in his introduction, he made a point of thanking the Greek police for teaching him to always keep backup tapes!
CD: Ha! So with all of this intimidation, not to mention the journalist arrests we saw recently, what are the Greeks so afraid of?
VF: They’re incredibly insecure. No, they’re not just insecure. They have a linguistic ideology that insists on wiping out all other languages. This is an old ideology. It is the origins of the term barbarian. Think about it.
Why don’t we have any traces of other languages preserved? As a matter of fact we do. There are some ancient inscriptions in Thracian.
CD: I thought the Thracians had no written language?
VF: They did. The inscriptions are in Greek script, but
the words are Thracian. And the inscriptions are sitting in Greece, gathering
dust. They know they’re there, but no one’s going to work on them because
the language is not Greek. So they’re not going to let anyone see them.
I have this from a colleague of mine who is a classicist and interested
in the
subject.
CD: Your Greece vignette reminds me of being the village of Amyndaeo south of Florina last year. I came across these two old men speaking to each other in Macedonian. I said dobar den (’good day’). And you know what? This man was so alarmed that he reacted before he could think, instinctively, by blurting out ne razbiram Makedonski (‘I don’t understand Macedonian’). This was one of the most ironic examples of fear of speaking one’s language I could imagine.
VF: Indeed.
CD: So I guess my question for you is, we asked the local people in Florina what percent of the people there speak Macedonian, since public life is mostly in Greek it was an interesting question. And several people said, ‘oh, everyone speaks it.’ What is your experience?
VF: Well, as far as I was told everybody in the area around Florina, or Lerin in Macedonian, over the age of 40 speaks Macedonian, whether they’re Macedonian or not. This is according to a colleague of mine who has done recent research. However, the younger generation is not learning it. But it is a topic that requires further (unhindered) research.
CD: From what I understand from different stories, this is because it is not helpful to advancement in Greek society, and can even be a strongly negative factor-
VF: Yes. The Greek government is effectively carrying out ‘linguicide’ on the Macedonians of Greece. And it has been a long-running policy. For another example, I have a photo of a sign in Greek, from the 1950s, printed up in blue-on-white, urging people to forbid anyone from speaking in ‘Vlahika, Makedonika etc.’ There used to be many such signs in Greek Macedonia.
CD: Really! That is quite compelling. Do people know about this?
VF: I don’t know-a friend sent the photo to me, I am finally getting around to publishing it in a review article in the journal Balkanistika next year.
But the Greek policy was always trying to kill the language. It was especially horrible in the 1930s. Macedonian kids would go to school, and if they spoke their language, the language they learned at home, numerous ‘corrective’ methods were used: teachers beat them, or stuck their tongues with needles, or rubbed a hot pepper on their tongues; anything to make them stop speaking Macedonian.
CD: Really! That sounds very extreme.
VF: Oh, they were terrible. In the 1930s, people were put in jail just for speaking Macedonian. The Greek government had people skulking around the windows of people’s houses, listening to hear if they spoken Macedonian so that they could report them to the police. Mothers were thrown in jail for speaking Macedonian to their babies. They terrorized the Macedonians, and then, with the Greek Civil War, they drove many of them out.
CD: Never to return-
VF: And then there’s the infamous ‘race clause’ in the amnesty law of 1982; it stipulated that to return the country and reclaim one’s property, all those who had been banished had to declare they were Greek by genos, by race or birth. Macedonians who were expelled, many just children at the time, in 1949, were never allowed to reclaim their property. It was racism, pure and simple.
CD: Do you recall what was the reaction here in Macedonia, from the locals? And what about the European countries? Surely this would have been considered a great breach of European values?
VF: I was actually here at the time this was announced. The people were very upset, because they have been so badly mistreated all along. The ‘Great Powers,’ of course, said nothing.
CD: Well this is interesting, because here we have in America a new president, a black man who surely knows something about the meaning of racism, and indeed the issues of race and injustices resonated throughout Obama’s campaign.
And at the same time, Obama signed that anti-Macedonian senate resolution, and has been a big supporter of the Greek lobby, who are probably counting on a return on their investment. Has anyone, to the best of your knowledge, pointed out this blatant hypocrisy regarding his support for a country that has a history of racist policies against its own citizens?
VF: No, I haven’t heard anyone put this to his people. It would be nice if the message could be gotten out, but so far I haven’t seen this happen. The Macedonians don’t seem to know enough about public relations and American politics-they should be using lobby companies, getting their message out every day in Washington.
CD: Yes, I concur with that-
VF: And, at the same time, the Greeks get away with this ‘cradle of democracy’ image! Give me a break! Ancient Greece was a slave-owning society. And you know, some scholars argue that Modern Greece is a creation of the Western European romantic imagination- for example, Lord Byron’s romanticized view of Ancient Greece projected, on the modern population. This is persuasively argued in a book of academic Michael Herdzfeld, called Ours Once More.
CD: That is an interesting school of thought, I had not really conceived it as such but there is something to it. What was the reaction to this book?
VF: I do not think there was a huge reaction, but Herzfeld was involved with another book, Anastasia Karakasidou’s Fields of Wheat, Hills of Blood, which did generate a great deal of controversy. Published by the University of Chicago Press in 1997, this book was actually a very mild challenge to Greek hegemonistic notions. What it dared to do, based on fieldwork in Greek Macedonia, was to state that there were citizens of Greece who did not feel themselves to be ethnic Greeks and that they still spoke their own language.
Cambridge University Press had committed to publishing the book with minor revisions, and then they suddenly decided not to publish the book. They had committed to it and suddenly changed their minds. Prof Herzfeld was on the editorial board of CUP’s anthropology series at the time, and he resigned in protest, as did other members of the board.
CD: Yes, they cited ‘the safety of their staff in Greece’ as their reason, right?
VF: Well they said that. However, the way I heard it, CUP had a monopoly on English-language testing in the schools of Greece as well…
CD: Do you believe that the Greek government threatened that they would lose this privilege?
VF: I have no idea, but assuming that they had a monopoly- two plus two, what are you going to make of that, four or twenty-two?
CD: But then you guys saved it-
VF: Yes, the University of Chicago went ahead and published the book, to their credit. But the whole situation is just disgusting; it makes Europe look like what she was called at the beginning of the 20th century, as depicted in the Bulgarian film Mera spored Mera, made in the 1980s. It was somewhat provocative, and received criticism from some quarters of the Communist government, because it used Aegean Macedonian dialects, as it was about the post-Ilinden period just after 1903.
The memorable line from the film, which was part of a real folk song dating back to 1878, was something like this: ‘be thou cursed and thrice cursed Europe, O you whore of Babylon and murderer of Macedonia.’
CD: So, what do you think then of the international negotiations over the name issue, and the constant pressure for Macedonia to ‘compromise’ with Greece here?
VF: There is no real compromise. There can’t be. Think about it: if a thief comes up to and holds a gun to your head and says ‘give me your money,’ do you say, ‘I’ll give you half,’ and call that a compromise? That’s Greece. They are trying to destroy Macedonia’s identity, plain and simple.
Note that no one on the Macedonian side is saying that Greeks cannot call themselves Macedonians, or their province Macedonia. But they never call themselves as such out of this context- they are, to themselves, Greeks first and foremost. So nobody actually needs the name Macedonia, and no one needs to call themselves Macedonians for their primary identity, except for these people in this small country that is not a threat to anyone.
CD: On that note, to conclude, let me ask this: based on your research, do you think that Macedonia gets enough credit for preserving its multiculturalism? And does it reflect at all on the temperament of the people here that it has been able to do so?
VF: First of all, Macedonia doesn’t get any credit. And in fact the isolation that Greece has succeeded in imposing on Macedonia in the last 17 years has been a major factor in adding to interethnic tension here, as we saw unfortunately in the 2001 conflict.
If the Greeks had just left the Macedonians alone to begin with, there would have been fewer such problems, or at least greater capacity to deal with the existing ones. But it was the Greek government (especially after 1991) and the Serbian government (especially after 1981) who exacerbated most of the problems, for their own purposes.
You know, the vast majority of normal people of all ethnicities in this country live together peacefully. There is a saying in Macedonian: nie sme krotok narod: ‘we are a mild people.’ A peaceful people. This is something that is constantly overlooked by the Great Powers- that, relative to the rest of the Balkans and much of the world, for all the very real problems that exist, Macedonians are still among the most peaceful and tolerant people you will find anywhere.
CD: Victor, thank you very much for your time and insightful comments. I appreciate it.
VF: And thank you. //(c) Balkan Analysis //C. Deliso
From: http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/4768/46/
From the International Scene
The
EU and NATO - the New Religion
Tirana | 07 April 2009 | By Besar Likmeta
Looking at the celebrations marking Albania’s NATO
accession over the weekend one could not help but feel a sense of déjà vu,
recalling the military parades of Albania’s former Stalinist regime.
True, cardboard missiles targeted at NATO have been replaced by modern
plasma screens and graphics beamed into the collective consciousness.
But they embody the same old propaganda principles. The message is: we
love NATO, and we adore it as much as we once adored the Warsaw Pact, the USSR,
China and whatever alliance we were engaged with before.
That sense of fetishism, of wanting to stand on the right side, with the
powerful and the almighty, has an almost religious quality.
Albania first applied for entry into the Atlantic alliance back in 1992,
being the first country in the former communist bloc to seek the new military
partnership with the West.
Although we did make it in the club after nearly two decades and Albanian
politicians proudly declare that 95 per cent of the population supports this
accession, one can’t help but wonder why everything produced in the West tends
to be consumed in our little corner of the world without question.
Like a mirage of the Garden of Eden, entry into the EU now gleams in the
distance. Every politician in this country, and its neighbours, likes to portray
himself like Moses, taking us to the Promised Land - the Western club, where
the grass is always green.
The journey started with the nationalistic state and the breakaway from
the Ottoman Empire, which, like the Pharaohs of Egypt, had kept us, according
to the politicos, from fulfilling our destiny.
In the 20th century, communism took over and they all tried to lead us
into proletarian heaven - yet another creation of the West.
Now they all want to lead us into NATO and the EU. For the last two decades
everything in this country has been measured in accordance with NATO or EU standards.
People had to reach EU standards, as did laws, toilets, schools, politicians,
protest and God knows what else.
Now we did make it into NATO, having been weighed, measured and found worthy,
it’s time that we questioned these standards. By that, I don’t mean that they
are necessarily bad or good. But if history teaches anything, it is that it’s
doomed to be repeated. We have consumed ready-made ideologies produced in the
past by the West, like nationalism and communism, with problematic results.
Let’s think for a moment, Albania made it into NATO, but Macedonia didn’t.
Was it because our military or democratic standards are higher? Bulgaria and
Romania are part of the EU club and they are certainly not the beacons of good
governance.
What I am trying to say is that we should have our own standards in terms
of democracy and good governance, instead of being told by someone in Brussels
what they are, or how we can fulfill them.
As the flock wanders in the desert we are deluged with photo-opportunities
with Western leaders. They try to tell us that these God-like figures of good
power support one or other politician. And if these almighties themselves approve
of our leaders, who are we to question such thing?
Our politicians all subscribe to the EU-NATO religion, leaving us only
to wonder who is the prophet to lead us through the endless desert of transition.
All we have left, unfortunately, is the hope that journey will be worth
it. However, despite our blind faith in the West, we should be able to question
it. In the end, if what the West propagates is true, it will only make such faith
stronger.
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/blogs/17986/
Opinions
The Macedonian Leadership is responsible for Politicizing the Greek agenda
The Macedonian leadership is solely responsible,
for turning a Greek lie, a century of oppression, theft and misrepresentations,
into a legitimate and operational truth by engaging in a process to institutionalize
the Greek claim, as truth.
It is the Macedonians who are making their E.U. membership contingent on
a "solution" to a dispute that has no legitimacy, in the first instance.
Just because the Greeks say they are Macedonians, and say they are ancient Greeks,
doesn't mean they are.
The Macedonians have only themselves to blame.
By Paul from www.maknews.com/forum
Greek Logic
The Greek perspective: You Skopjans have no right to the
name Macedonia because you are not decendents of the ancient Macedonians.
The Macedonian perspective: You Greeks are mainly Albanians Vlachs, etc.
Greek response: Wow you Macedonians are racists it doesn’t matter what our
ancestors are we are Greek.
My response: So a Greek can be a Greek regardless of ethnicity whereas a
Macedonian can only be a Macedonian if they can prove some genetic link with
the ancients, and if they declare they are also Greek.
When we point out the inconsistencies in their argument we are racists! How
can we continue to talk to these people when they refuse to adhere to any
principles of logic or ethics?
By Osiris
It should be remembered that it is infinitely more
difficult to be a Macedonian in Greece than it is to be a Macedonian in
the Republic. And yet all of us are nervously sitting on our hands as we
pray one of our Republic's leaders does not sell our identity out from
beneath us. It may even be understood that it sometimes is hard to be a
Macedonian in the Republic.
Dare I say, most Macedonians in the Diaspora who came with the first wave
of immigrants fled from Greece. Most Macedonians from the Republic came much
later to their new countries. Whilst they left for a better life, they certainly
had intimate knowledge of their Serbian oppressors. They had first hand knowledge
of Serbian life. Just as my people knew much about life in Greece.
Tragically, being an oppressed race, we have cultural skeletons in each
of our respective closets.
If someone asks me what have the Aegeans done for the Macedonian cause,
my answer would be clear ... we were doing it all by ourselves for many years
whilst many Macedonians of Yugoslavia were enjoying unprecedented economic prosperity
under the ever watchful eye of the Serbian wolves.
We Aegeans have probably been in our new countries one generation longer
than our Northern brothers. Hopefully we do not lose our passion too soon. But
equally hopefully, some people might look back at what was created for them (and
by whom) so that life is a little easier for them in their new countries now.
Instead of looking at what we have in common, some people look for the
differences. A typical "victim/slave" mentality that will ensure our
oppressor's goals are achieved. Wake up Macedonians.
By Risto the Great from http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/
Well said brother, all of my ancestry is from the Bitola region and I have never looked at the Macedonians south (east, west, north for that matter) of the border as anything but Macedonians.
Our people need to be united in mind and spirit,
even if there was only one good Macedonian left beyond the borders of the
Republic and the rest were sellouts, that one still deserves our acknowledgement
and support.
A sellout is a sellout, regardless which end of our common fatherland they
stem from.
By Soldier of Macedon from http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/
Concerns
Say NO to joining the European Union
Why are we cozying up to economies that are about
to implode through excessive debt and rampant consumerism while making
pithy pronouncements about human rights throughout the world and blaming
China and India for global warming, this is so typical of western duplicity
and lies.
Here we have the nations who raped the Americas, Asia and are still plundering
Africa preaching about ethics and international relations based on respect and
fairness, nations which went to war to open up China to the sale of opium, nations
which built their wealth on slavery and the genocide of millions of America’s
nations, who started two world wars and attempted to destroy all Jews and Slavs,
and we are asked to think these racist dogs have changed.
Its obvious how these people work and yet we Macedonians reckon we are
part of their culture and share their values. I don’t! I despise the hypocrisy
of the ruling elites of Europe they deserve our contempt not admiration, they
throw scraps of their thieves table to the poor of the world while still keeping
in place protectionist economic policies to keep the poor of the world underdeveloped
so they can feel good about their petty charitable contributions.
That’s why I do not believe any of their lies about the state of the world
and the cause of terrorism; they have been the greatest terrorist and warmongers
in the history of the world.
By Osiris
Choices
The Macedonian people are a historical reality in
the region, shaped by a common language, culture, religion and a sense
of shared identity...the Macedonian population hasn't been brought into
the region en masse from outside of Europe, nor have they been systematically
ethnically re-engineered like some...
The very concept of the nation-state is new and there's very little evidence
of it anywhere in Europe before 1850 as you arrogantly and ignorantly demand
from us but the mere fact that a Macedonian nation managed to rise as late as
the 20th century is proof that enough like minded people sharing a common language,
culture, history and religion but considering themselves different enough from
their neighbours who existed in the region...compare Macedonia's lonely journey
along this difficult path with that of Greece’s easier ride, with the help from
the 19th century 'superpowers', the patronage of Western educated romantics and
philhellenes and a healthy stock of educated 'Greeks' from the remnants of Byzantium’s
multi-cultural demise...I reckon Macedonia's story is remarkable considering
the odds against it and the hostile environment that it was nurtured in...this
is a story of immense and difficult complexity, a mountain of conjecture that
needs to be navigated before any definitive outcomes could ever be reached...and
to cloud the journey further we have the old adage that the victor writes the
history...and his-story is not always my story.
By Phoenix from www.maknews.com/forum/
Free Advice
I appreciate that there is more than one definition
of nation, however, what I said was a nation could also be viewed as a
group of people with a common bloodline or ancestry. Are you claiming that "modern
social scientists" would exclude people of common ancestry from being
defined as a nation?
Here's the Wiki definition of "nation":
"A nation is a body of people who share a common history, culture,
language or ethnic origin, who typically inhabit a particular country or territory."
Macedonians share a common history, culture, language and ethnic origin.
Slavic speaking Macedonians are recorded in Macedonia from the sixth century
AD onward - and I'm being generous here by not including the pre-existing populations
they assimilated. The blood bond in Macedonians is self-evident.
Modern Greeks do not share a common history as they derive from different
geographic regions, e.g., the South Balkans, Asia Minor, the Black Sea and North
Africa.
Modern Greeks do not share a common culture as they are an admixture of
distinct cultures that were politically cobbled together after 1820. Many of
today's "Greeks" only arrived in the South Balkans after the 1920s
- that's not very long in the land my friend.
Modern Greeks only adopted a common language after the Bavarians created
the Modern Greek kingdom in the 1800s. The new Greek language was made the official
language of the state and everyone was forced to adopt it. There were precious
few Greek speakers prior to that and most who did speak Greek spoke it as a consequence
of the Byzantine Church. In Aegean Macedonia the Greek language was only imposed
after 1913, some of the indigenous, historical languages of Macedonia still survive
there.
Modern Greeks do not share a common ethnic heritage. It would be trivial
to demonstrate that Modern Greeks derive from Albanians, Slavs, Vlach, etc.,
as well as a great variety of newly emigrated and transplanted Ottoman Christian
groups.
Here is your Greek definition of "nation":
"...Countries where the social concept of "nation" coincides with
the political concept of "state" are called nation states."
Today's Modern Greeks don't share a common ancestry. Obviously the Turkish
Christian groups do not share a common ancestry with the Aromanian Vlach, who
do not share a common ancestry with Macedonians, who do not share a common ancestry
with the Christian Albanians (Arvanites) who do not share a common ancestry with
the "Muslim Greeks", and so on.
Certainly people who have only just arrived in the region in the last few
decades cannot share a common ancestry with people who have been there centuries
prior to their arrival. Think about it, the Turks in Western Thrace have been
in the land centuries longer than the fake Ellines of new Athens. But that's
so obvious it's hardly worth mentioning, though the new Greeks treat the old
populations like dirt, to the point of denying them any expression of their ethnic
identity.
So the Modern Greek definition of "nation" is a political definition
as you lack the other elements, i.e., history, culture, language and ethnicity.
Same idea for the Modern Greek definition of ethnicity. If I believe I
am Greek then I am Greek, even if my parents and grandparents believed they were
Macedonian, Vlach or Albanian. It works if religion and an imposed language is
all you have in common. I could argue that the term Modern Greek "ethnicity" is
akin to modern Canadian "ethnicity" or modern Australian "ethnicity".
By Maknews from www.maknews.com/forum/
Stories
REPUBLIC of NORTHERN MACEDONIA!
This is yet another ridiculous proposal from Mathew Nimitz.
And what, the name "Greek Macedonia" for Artificial Greece's
illegally annexed northern province?!
The Republic of Macedonia is "Macedonia", and always will be just
that my friend!
Artificial Greece should entirely rid themselves from the name Macedonia.
Artificial Greece, for starters, should not even be called "Greece" but "Arvanitovlachia" instead!
"Make-don ija" (Mother of zeus state) is a proto-Slavic name!
(Notice how Nimitz deliberately doesn't ever say what the name "Makedonija" means
and avoids the above interpretation!)
In a joint agreement and/or package between the two sovereign states, the
Republic of Macedonia could perhaps allow Arvanitovlachia to refer to
their illegally annexed northern province as "New Macedonia" (though
I am personally against this). This would be similar to the arrangement
between the Republic of Mexico and the U.S. State of New Mexico.
"Mitera" (not 'Make') means 'Mother' in modern Arvanitovlach bastardized
imposed koine.
If the Arvanitovlachs don't want their forged state to be called Arvanitovlachia,
they may want to opt for the name "Miterdania" instead.
This also means "Mother of Zeus State".
Imagine that, "Miterdania" with its illegally annexed northern
province of "New Macedonia"!
I, however, believe the following is the best solution:
The Republic of Macedonia on one hand.
The Republic of Arvanitovlachia with its northern province to be called "New
Asia Minor" on the other hand.
On a final note, here is something for Mathew Nimitz to think about.
Mathew > Ma-"the(o)" > Mother of zeus!
How can that be?!
By Igor D.
YUNANISTAN OR ARVANOVLACHIA?
Risto, I've noticed that some Maknews Forum members incorrectly refer to
the citizens of the artificially created "Southern Balkan (Mediterranean)
Republic" (NOT GREECE) as 'Yunnanis'.
They should be calling them "bastardized imposed Koine speaking Arvanovlachs" instead,
because that is what they really are.
The Yunnanis disappeared in history a long time ago. They were a mixture
of indigenous proto-Slav Pelasgians, colonizer/invader Hyksos-Hebrews, Nubians
(Ethiopians), and some white ancient Egyptians.
(Just for the record, the Ancient Macedonians were purely a select group
of united, indigenous, proto-Slavic tribes).
From ZAC I -THE FIRST
The Sewer Which Is The European Union!!!
Risto, one more thing. Many Forum Members call the EU a variety of derogatory
names. They've branded it dysfunctional, pro "Greek" (Arvanovlach),
racist, etc, etc.
So, why is the EU behaving like this towards the Republic of Macedonia?
I believe it is because the EU is an American/Zionist backed organization.
People better realize quick smart that behind our backs, all these governments
don't really like us or want us. This also applies to the Orthodox Christian "Slav" Serbians
and of course the Orthodox Christian "Slav" Russians.
This is the reason why the back door should always be left open
for the Russians.
Regards ZAC I -THE FIRST
US. Urge Athens-Skopje "Macedonia" Name Row Compromise!
At a hearing of the Congressional Committee on Foreign Affairs last month
(April), US Secratary of State Hilary Clinton stated:
"Washington strongly supports efforts in finding a mutually acceptable solution."
She added, "USA understands Greece's sensitivity."
"We must encourage both sides to reach an acceptable solution."
REPLY:
What a joke. This woman should not be US. Secretary of State. Everyone knows
why she really got the job.
We shouldn't trust the USA. In their so-called Annual Human Rights Report
on Arvanitovlachia they still deliberately refer to the ethnic Macedonians
there as "Slav Macedonians" and/or "Slavophones" to appease
the Arvanitovlachs.
The US also backed (and armed) the NLA ALLbanian terrorists in the 2001 conflict.
We all know about the farce that occurred at Arancinovo.
RE: "USA understands Greece's sensitivity."
REPLY:
In 1831 Arvanitovlachia (not Greece) was artificially created for the first
time in history by the cold blooded Great Western Powers. In 1913
the forged state was then (illegally) given 51% of Ottoman occupied Macedonia.
So, what "sensitivity" is Mrs Clinton talking about?
RE: "We must encourage both sides to reach an acceptable solution."
REPLY:
The USA recognized The Republic of Macedonia under its constitutional name
back in 2004.
The US Democrats, on the other hand, have always proven themselves to
be pro Arvanitovlach.
In fact, to begin with, the Arvanitovlachs instead should tell us why
they want the name "Greece" (let alone "Macedonia")!
Hilary Clinton should first take a look at her own name and tell us why it
is proto-Slavic!
Hi-la(ry) > Lives-Li.
C-lin-ton > "G(io)-lin-don" > Lives li and don (zeus).
By Bogdan T.
(Bogdan > Poseidon > Washington)
"Bog" dan > "Bozhe" don > "Posei" don > "Washing" don!
"Bo-g(e)" > "Bo-zhe" > "Po-sei" > "Wa-shing" > "Va-shing" > Lives
zeus.
A "Don" is a deity.
Ve' zhe don > Lives zeus, the deity.
"Make don" > Mother of the 'don' (zeus)!
Ahhh, but wait a minute! According to the "Maggots on the web.com" "Makedon" derives
from the word 'Makednos' which means "tall people" or "highlanders"! Hahahahahaha!!!
Risto please! The word is "don" not "dno(s)" you morons!
RE: The Descendants of Noah's Sons; Ham, Canaan and Shem -Last
Issue
Risto, this article was an interesting read, however, in reality, the
story of Noah and the flood was just another "Great" BIG Lie!
There are scientists who believe that a massive transfer of water did occur
in about 5,600 BC. This deluge had catastrophic effects on the people living
on the shore of the black sea. It triggered mass migrations across Europe
and into the Near East, Middle East and Egypt. It may have been the source
of many flood stories in the area. Some researchers believe that the story
of Noah's flood in the Biblical book of Genesis is a myth that had its origins
in this cataclysmic event.
Google "Noah flood story based on other events"
(P.S. Forget about looking for Noah's ark. It never existed!)
By A Digest Reader
Feedback: Re: The Exodus/s of Aye (Scota and Gaedel -part 17)
Ralph Ellis: "....the word for a river in the ancient Egyptian language
is Eebre (Eebro)." (18)
REPLY:
1. It must be remembered that the "real" white Ancient Egyptians
(probably a very early branch of the Balkan proto-Slav Veneti) ceased to
exist at the very latest by around 800 BC.
2. Perhaps Eebre (Ebro) did mean river in the ancient Egyptian language,
but the root meaning of the word is:
"Ee-b-re" > Ee/Lives, b(eo)/v(eo)/th(eo)/d(eo)/zeus, re/ra. "Lives
zeus and (the Sun-god) ra."
3. In the Macedonian language the word for a river is "reka", but
the root meaning of the word is:
"re-ka" > re/ra, ka/ga/zha/zeus. "(the Sun-god) ra and zeus."
By Igor D.
Feedback: Re: The Chosen People -Part 8
1. "He (Joshua) then sent two men on a dangerous mission to investigate
the city of Jericho, to find out as much as they could about its defences
and its army."
REPLY:
Jericho > "Je-ri-ko" > Je/Lives, ri/the Sun-god Ra, ko/zeus.
The irony is ......
Israel > "I-s-ra" > I/Lives, s/zeus, ra/the Sun-god.
Evere > "E-ve-re" > E/Lives, ve/the/zeus, re/the Sun-god.
2. "Spurred on by the victory at Jericho, Joshua immediately sent scouts
further into the land of Canaan to spy out the Israelites' next target, the
city of Ai."
REPLY:
Ai > "Ai-gai" > Ai/Lives, gai/zeus.
Aigai was the name of the first Ancient Macedonian capital city.
3. "God however (initially) brings about the Israelite's defeat at Ai
because He knows that Achan, a man from the Israelite tribe of Judah, has
disobeyed Him. At the conquest of Jericho Achan had stolen a beautiful mantle,
along with some gold and silver, and hidden them."
REPLY:
"Achan" = "Achaea"! Hmmm....
The indigenous proto-Slav Pelasgian (Giorgi) Mycenaeans at Morea were
conquered by the Hyksos Hebrews sometime after 1580 BC. Morea became known
as "Achaea"!!!
By Igor D.
Feedback: Re: The Chosen People -Part 9
1. "Not far to the south-west of Ai lay the mighty city of Gibeon."
REPLY:
Gibeon > Gi-beo(n) > "Zhi-veo" > Lives zeus.
2. The group of Gibeonite peasants speaking to Joshua and posing as ambassadors:
"We have been travelling for many weeks to get here. Even though we live
far away, news of your wonderful God has reached our tribe."
REPLY:
Who is actually the Israelite God?
.Ra
.El (ie. Penuel > P>B>V > "Venu-el" > Lives el.)
.Amin (ie. Benjamin > "Venj amin" > Lives amin.) Hmmm. Benyamin
Netanyahu is the Israeli PM!
.Aton
.Aye (*By now, Aye would be quite old in his exile in Spain, or like Moses,
he would have died by now.)
3. "His (Joshua's) first guess had been completely right - the Gibeonites
were local people who had dressed up to trick him, to try and escape death
at the hands of a huge army led by God himself."
"Joshua knew that to break his solemn vow to let them live would bring God's
wrath upon them, even though they would have killed them all had they not made
the peace. The Gibeonites were therefore spared, but to punish them for their
lies they were taken as slaves to spend the rest of their days working for the
great Israelite army and the tabernacle of their God."
REPLY:
Israel > I-s-ra/el > I/Lives, s/zeus, ra/el > the Sun-god.
Evere > E-ve-re > E/Lives, ve/zeus, re/the Sun-god.
Notice too how the Gibeonites believed in Zeus and the Israelites/Hebrews
didn't want to! Hmmm...
Notice too how the Israeli's don't believe in Jesus. Je-su(s) > Lives-zeus.
Hmmm...
4 "King Adonizedek of Jerusalem was among the Canaanite rulers who had
sworn to join forces to drive the Israelites out of Canaan."
REPLY:
Notice the "Adon" in Adonizedek? How can this be?
First of all, believe it or not, the 'Egyptian' God Aten (Adon) actually
existed before Akhenaton's time! (Risto, your readers may want to Google "Aten" for
more information on this).
Secondly, it must be remembered that this is the 2nd Hyksos-Israelite (and
Theran-Minoan) exodus out of Lower Egypt. The first Hyksos-Israelite (and
Theran-Minoan) exodus occurred a couple of centuries earlier, in 1580 BC.
"Akhenaton" > is said to mean "Effective spirit of the Aten".
Akhen > (K>G>Z) > "Azhen" > the living or life giving?
As in Zhive-li? The living or life giving Sun-god li?!
In light of the content already outlined in this e-mail, the following is
my opinion:
Akhenaton > "A-khen-aton" > (A>E>I>O>U) > "E-zhen-aton" > E/Lives,
zhen/zeus, aton/the Sun-god.
Adonizedek > "Adon-i-ze-de"(k) > Adon/the Sun-god, i/and,
ze/the living, de/zeus. "Adon and the living zeus".
5. The Amorite Kings:
King Hoham of Hebron
King Piram of Jarmuth
King Japhia of Lachish
King Debir of Eglon
REPLY:
The Canaanite tribes themselves believed in a Sun-god, be it Ra (Li) or Adon,
his son Zeus and his mother goddess.
Amorite > "A-mo-ri-te" > A>E/Lives, mo/mother, ri/ra,
te>de/zeus. Lives mother, ra and zeus.
Hebron > "He-b-ron" > He/Lives, b/zeus, ron/ra. Lives zeus
and ra.
Jarmuth > "Ja-r-mu-th" > Ja/Lives, r/ra, mu/mother, th/zeus.
Lives ra, mother and zeus.
Lachish > "La-chish" > La/the Sun-god, chish/cush/zeus. The
Sun-god and zeus.
Eglon > "E-g-lon" > E/Lives, g/zeus, lon/li. Lives zeus and
li.
6. "In the midst of the killing, a messenger came running up to Joshua
excitedly. "Sir, the five Kings tried to escape, but some of our troops
found them. They were hiding in a cave at Makedah, but we've now got them
cornered. What shall we do with them?"
Joshua wanted to deal with the rebel kings himself, to make an example of
them to any other Canaanite peoples that might dare go against the Israelites."
REPLY:
Hmmm!!! Makedah!!! Make > Mother, dah/zeus. Mother of zeus!!!
7. "In front of the Israelites, the kings were hanged, one by one, and
their bodies thrown back into the cave from which they had just come.
Not content with having slain the five Amorite kings and crushing their armies,
Joshua next attacked and destroyed each of their cities, killing every person
found there."
REPLY:
Are these not war crimes?
8. "....the Canaanite chiefs realized that no one stood a chance of
being spared. Their choice was either to sit back and wait for their people
to be slaughtered, or to come out and fight. So, under the leadership of
King Jabin of Hazor, the rulers mobilized their armies. Hundreds of thousands
of troops, horses and chariots gathered in a massive camp at Merom. The soldiers
were all in full battledress, and determined to stop the Israelites from
taking their lands.
Report after report reached Joshua's ears of the vast army preparing to attack.
But God reassured him. "Have no fear," He told Joshua, "for
I will deliver all these troops slain into your hands. Tomorrow, you will
kill their horses and burn their chariots." Joshua trusted the Lord
and immediately led the Israelites into an attack. The battle was more savage
and bloody than any either army had suffered before. When the ruthless
killing was eventually over, the bodies littering the battlefield were Canaanite.
As God had vowed, they lay next to the corpses of their horses and the smoking
wrecks of their once glorious chariots. The Israelites had won their mightiest
victory yet."
REPLY:
Hmmm....
King Jabin of Hazor: Ja-bin > Lives zeus. Ha-zo-r > Lives zeus and
ra.
Merom > "Me-ro" > Ma-rhea. Ma Rhea was the mother of zeus
(don). She was also known as "MakeDonna".
9. "Joshua was a great warrior and a mighty leader, but when he died
he had not conquered all "Israel". The Philistines were particularly
difficult to defeat, and their fortified towns, such as Gaza and Gath, remained
undefeated until the reign of King David.
This meant that all around the Israelites there were people worshipping idolatrous
gods like Baal and Ashtoreth, and this proved to be too much of a temptation
after Joshua's death."
REPLY:
Philistine > "Phi-li s-ti" > "Vi-li - zh(ive)-di" > Lives
li - lives zeus.
Philip > Vi-li > Lives li, p(os)/b(os)/v(os) > "vo-s(e)" > lives
zeus.
Gaza > Ga-za > Zhive-zhe > Lives zeus.
Gath > Ga-th > Zhive-theo/veo/zeus > Lives zeus.
10. "One of the cities captured by Joshua in his long battle to gain
complete control of the Promised Land was called Megiddo."
REPLY:
Megiddo > Megi/Mother, ddo/don/zeus. Mother of Zeus!
By Igor D.
Some Brigantians (Scotians) Stayed Behind In Spain And Did Not
Migrate To Ireland (Scota and Gaedel -part 20)
"It would appear to be more than likely that the first wave of immigrants
to Ireland came from Brigantia and Mallorca, and they set sail only four or so
generations after Aye-Gaythelos and Ankhesenamun-Scota landed in Spain. This
was the major exodus event that the chronicle (Scotichronicon) relates." (1)
"However, there was a further, and smaller, wave of immigrants that came
from another location in a later era." (2)
Some Brigantians (Scotians) "chose to stay behind in Brigantia, instead
of sailing off to Ireland...."
'For about 240 years they stayed, poorly fed and meanly clad, among the Spaniards
who attacked them ceaselessly. The desolate wastes and forest of the Pyrenees
were entirely handed over to them by the Spaniards, so that they were scarcely
able to survive, supporting life on goat's milk and wild honey.' (Scotichronicon)
Had Brigantia been located on the river Ebro, and had the people there either
been driven out or voluntarily migrated to new lands, an obvious choice would
have been to retrace the flow of the river Ebro. This river was reliable
and fertile, and no doubt its headwaters would be equally so; as are the
upper reaches of the Nile. However, had these people been driven onwards
and northwards, past the city of Zaragoza, rather further than they had intended,
then they would indeed have found themselves up in the high Pyrenees - a
land which becomes increasing cooler and less fertile. In fact, they would
have found themselves exiled to the source of the Ebro at Naverra, which
is the Basque homeland." (3)
'Scota: Egyptian Queen of The Scots', By Ralph Ellis, Adventures Unlimited,
USA, 2006, Pages 163, 164.
By A Digest Reader
THE CHOSEN PEOPLE -PART 10
For a long time after Joshua's death, the Israelites were careful to keep
their promise to obey God's commands and live according to His laws. Without
a war chief or king at the nation's head, it was up to the wise officials
called Judges to bind the people together in their single faith. However,
as the years went by, the brave men and women who had invaded Canaan grew
old and passed away. There were no longer eyewitnesses to tell of all the
wonderful things that God had done for the Israelites, so many people began
to wonder whether they had ever happened at all.
One of Joshua's last orders had been to drive out all the inhabitants of
Canaan. Even though the Israelite war parties continued to have great success
in taking new territories, they sometimes allowed the local people to remain
as slaves. Other times, the Israelites simply moved into areas and settled
down among the tribes. The Judges often repeated Joshua's warning about what
would happen if the Israelites mixed with the Canaanites: the temptation
to follow the pagan gods would prove too much, and the Lord would turn away
from them in anger, resulting in the fall of the nation. And the time indeed
came when an angel came down from Heaven with a final caution that God was
losing patience.
Despite the angel's warning, the Israelites begin to forget God's laws. They
live alongside the Canaanites, and start to worship their gods. The judges
try to enforce God's laws but in vain. Finally, God loses patience and removes
His protection. The Israelites fall under the control of their neighbours.
The Israelites live under Moabite control for 18 long years. Yet at last
God chooses to give His betrayers yet another chance and answers their cries
for help.
An Israelite by the name of Ehud tricks his way to the Moabite court where
he stabs and kills King Eglon.
By the time King Eglon's servants had realized something was wrong, Ehud
had escaped from the palace and was nearly home. The minute he reached Ephraim,
he took out a trumpet and gave the signal to go to battle. The Israelites
swooped down on the Moabite soldiers and slaughtered 10,000 of them. Finally,
they had won back the Lord's favour and their freedom.
When Ehud died, the Israelites quickly fell back into their old habits, worshipping
the gods of the Canaanites. Once again, God removes His protection, and the
Israelites come under the rule of King Jabin of the Philistines.
After 20 years of hardship, Deborah (the Judge) comes to the rescue of her
people, instructing an Israelite man called Barak to gather an army. Deborah
joins him, and together they defeat Jabin's army.
The Israelites carry on fighting until they slay the Canaanite king himself (Jabin) and
destroy his palace at Hazor. Now surely this time the Israelites would make
sure they did everything as the Lord wanted. Alas, no. Within the space of
40 years the obstinate people had again turned to wicked ways, and an enraged
God left them to be conquered by the Midianites.
The Midianite tribes hated the Israelites with a passion and treated them
more cruelly than any enemy before.
Once again, however, God chooses a man by the name of Gideon to be the Israelites'
saviour.
One evening the Lord spoke to Gideon, instructing him to destroy his own
father's altar to Baal and erect one to God instead. Gideon was afraid -
he knew he'd be in serious trouble. But that night, he did as he had been
told. Joash, Gideon's father, refused to punish his son as he felt sure that
there must be a good reason for his son's outburst. From that day onwards,
Gideon was somehow different.
Gideon then gathers an army and defeats the Midianites, the Amalekites and
all the other Eastern tribes. The rejoicing Israelite nation begs him to
become their sole leader, but he refuses. "The Lord will rule over
you," he told the people. And Israel lived in peace for the rest of
Gideon's life.
Within 50 years after Gideon's death, the Israelites faced yet more chaos.
The Ammonite people declared war on the Israelites. As the Israelites had
done in the past, they cried out to the Lord for help. At first the Lord
hardened His heart, but just in time He decided to give them another great
war leader. The man the Lord chose as His new hero was Jephtah.
When the Israelites ask him to lead their troops into battle against the
Ammonites, he makes a bargain with them, that he remain their leader if he
is successful. However, his bargain with God is not so clever.
Jephtah prayed to God and made a solemn vow, "Lord, if you deliver these
enemies into our hands, I will sacrifice to you whatever I see first when
I reach home." And so Jephtah and his army went to war and slaughtered
the Ammonite forces.
News of the warlord's great victory travelled before him, and as Jephtah
drew near to his house his daughter came out to celebrate his return, playing
a tambourine. Instead of rushing to throw his arms round his daughter, he
howled with grief, throwing himself down into the dirt and tearing at his
clothes in despair.
After two months, not breaking his vow to God, Jephtah paid the price
and slayed his daughter by his own hand.
(Extracts are from a simplified version of The Old Testament)
By Ljupco
THE CHOSEN PEOPLE -PART 11
For decades the Israelites had struggled with the war-like Philistines for
control of the Promised Land. No matter how many defeats each nation suffered,
they both refused to give up; and even though Barak and Deborah had previously
crushed the entire Philistine army, the Philistines had slowly regained their
strength. Now Israel once again fell into Philistine hands.
God sends a saviour in the form of a baby boy. As a young man, Samson disappoints
his parents by marrying a Philistine girl, but this is part of God's plan
for him, and the alliance is short-lived.
At his grand wedding (which included 30 Philistine guests) Samson decides
to add to the fun by asking a riddle.
"Solve it by the end of the week," Samson challenged the Philistines, "and
I will give each of you a set of fine clothes. If you fail, you must buy me rich
clothes instead." For days the guests racked their brains, until they were
almost driven mad. As the baffled Philistines ran out of ideas, they decided
to cheat. They went to the bride and told her that her life depended on telling
them the secret. Samson's young bride was so scared that she plagued her husband
desperately for the answer to the riddle.
When Samson realized that he had been tricked by his guests he was furious.
He stormed over to the nearest Philistine town and killed 30 citizens. He
took the clothes that they were wearing, and he gave them to the Philistine
wedding guests to keep his side of the bargain. Then, broken-hearted, he
returned all alone to his father's house. The Philistines turned on his sweetheart
and her father and burnt them inside their house. Samson was grief-stricken. "I
swear I shall not stop until I have taken my vengeance on the whole nation," he
vowed solemnly. But first he had to deal with the lynch mob who had arrived
looking for him.
Cunningly, he allowed the Israelites to tie his hands and lead him to his
captors. There he broke free and seized a large jawbone that was lying at
his feet. He attacked the Philistines in a frenzy, and by the time he stopped,
he had killed 1,000 of his greatest enemies single-handed.
The Philistines didn't give up trying to catch Samson. When they found him
sleeping one night, he escaped by simply lifting the city gates and walking
away with them!
(The Philistines were the Israelites' greatest enemies. According to the
Bible, they came from the island of Crete and settled on the southern coastal
plain of Canaan in the 12th century BC. The Philistines had five main cities,
each with its own ruler. The country of Palestine takes its name from the
Philistines.)
News of Samson's feats of strength against the hated Philistines spread like
wildfire through Israel and the people's hero found himself made a Judge.
Samson falls in love with a girl called Delilah. But he hadn't learnt his
lesson. Like his former wife, Delilah was a Philistine. And unknown to him
she was soon bribed by Philistine chieftains to use her charms to get Samson
to reveal the secret of his strength.
"If my hair is cut, I shall be like any other man," Samson confided.
Delilah then planned everything down to the last detail, so nothing could
go wrong. She was so confident of success that she sent messages to the chieftains
to come and collect Samson - bringing her money, of course - before she'd
even taken him prisoner.
First, she soothed Samson to sleep in her lap. Then, when he was snoring
soundly, she gave the signal for a servant to creep in and cut off his precious
long braids. Finally, with a small self-satisfied smile, she breathed in
his ear to wake him.
"Samson! Samson!" she whispered. "The Philistines are coming!" Without
realizing that his hair was gone, Samson sprang up to face the soldiers. But
the strength of the Spirit of the Lord had indeed left him, and he was soon overpowered.
As Samson stood before the Philistines in chains - knowing helplessness for the
first time in his life - the cruel, merciless warriors blinded him by gouging
out his eyes. Then, rejoicing at the great Israelite leader's misery, they flung
him into the jail at Gaza.
(When Samson's hair is cut, one of his Nazirite vows is broken. Until now,
this was a vow he had kept. The vow is a sign of his dedication to God. Though
Samson is physically strong, he is morally weak. His weakness symbolizes
the weakness of all the Israelites, who have repeatedly broken God's laws
and turned to other gods.)
(Dagon was one of the main Philistine gods. The Hebrew word 'dagan' means "grain" and
it is possible that Dagon was a vegetation or grain god. He was first worshipped
in Mesepotamia from at least 2500 BC onwards.)
In the double darkness of the prison dungeons and his blindness, Samson was
put to work grinding corn, which hurt him at every move because of the shackles
round his wrists and ankles. He had no family with him, no friends, and no
possessions - only God and time. And as time passed, Samson's hair began
to grow again without him even realizing.
The day came when the Philistines held an important festival in praise of
their god, Dagon. The Philistines, this year, had something really special
to thank Dagon for, for he had delivered into their hands the powerful Israelite
leader who single-handedly been the cause of thousands of Philistine deaths.
Voices began to call for the famous prisoner to be brought up out of the
jail and paraded for all the Philistines to see, so they could enjoy mocking
and jeering at him to their hearts' content.
As soon as the first people caught sight of the wretched, blind Samson shuffling
into the temple, they began to yell insults and ridicule him, and soon the
noise and excitement was at fever pitch. The Philistine chieftains ordered
Samson to be positioned right in the middle of the temple floor, between
the two main supporting pillars, in order to give as many of their subjects
as possible a good view. And the Israelite champion stood there as he was
told, quite broken and slumped, trying to block out the insults and obscenities
that came hurtling through the darkness to his ears.
Then an idea came into Samson's mind. Slowly he bent down to the boy
who was there to lead about, and said, "Will you help me feel where
the pillars are, so I can lean on them." Samson felt the lad take
his hands and guide them out on to the cool rock on either side of him. Then
silently Samson called out to the Lord with all the passion that was inside
him. "O God, please give me my strength back just one more time - so
I can be avenged upon these people for the loss of my eyes." And Samson
drew himself up and braced himself against the pillars, suddenly feeling
the Spirit of the Lord flooding as strongly through his body as ever. "Let
me die with the Philistines!" he cried out, and heaved with all his
might.
The Philistines watched with mounting horror as the crushed, dejected prisoner
had straightened up into a broad-shouldered warrior. Samson broke the
pillars with an almighty crack and the roof and walls of the huge temple
came crashing inwards, burying the thousands of people inside under tonnes
of rubble.
That day, the mighty Samson died along with the Philistines. But he killed
more enemies by dying than he had killed during all his life.
(Like Samson, there were other Israelites who married neighbouring enemy
peoples and visa versa. Ruth was a young Moabite woman who changed her religion.
She marries an Israelite man called Boaz. In due course she gives birth to
a son, Obed, who was to become the grandfather of David, the greatest of
all the Israelite kings.)
(The Battle of Beliefs: On their arrival in the land of Canaan, the Israelites
fought many battles with the local people, in an attempt to take over their
land. Alongside the war over land, another war was also being fought - a
war of religion.)
(Extracts are from a simplified version of The Old Testament)
By Ljupco
Book and other Reviews
Was the Greek army a group of barbarian savages?
http://www.topix.com/forum/world/greece/TR2JMS3N4BJ5M25QS
A new book was written by a Greek journalist and
researcher to shed light on the concealed facts of brutalities and massacres
committed by barbarian Greek army.
Tasos Kostopulos' last book, ‘1912- 1922 War and Ethnic Cleansing', reveals
the facts hidden from Greek people about what really happened in the dark pages
of their history.
The book emphasizes on brutalities, massacres and violence committed by
the irregular Greek army in the Balkans and Anatolia against the Turkish population.
The facts on how Greek soldiers mass murdered thousands of civilian people and
usurped their homes, fields, and belongings are documented in the book. The people
lucky to be able to run away from the murderous Greek army had to leave their
homes and belongings and move to Anatolia in order to save their lives. The book
describes Venizelos as an opportunist politician who tried to expand the territories
of Greece in Anatolia based on excuses and his destructive ambitions.
The book includes a lot of memories of people. The following is from the
memoirs of a Greek officier, named A. Dimitriou:
"25 December 1920. We entered Kopruhisar with our forces around noon.
I saw armed Greek soldiers entering homes and shops of people breaking the doors.
There were screams of Turkish civilians, cries of women all around the village.
Sometimes I was hearing shootings. While walking on the streets, I saw an open
door. I entered inside. Next to the stairs, there was the dead body of an old
Turkish civilian. I heard rows and screams coming from further inside. I moved
in. There were around 10 Greek soldiers their clothes in dirt and mud, lying
on the floor, bursting in laughter and joy. They were raping a Turkish girl,
who has half naked, her clothes being ripped. The girl was crying in pain. She
was begging the soldiers to stop.
The soldiers saw me. They asked me to join them. I cried: "What a
shame, leave the girl alone". The girl looked at me, stood up with her last
energy, hugged me and said in Turkish: "Please, please help me". I
swore at soldiers and said: "What a disgrace you are, we are in a war".
One of the soldiers took his bayonet, walked over me and said: "Fcuk off,
fcuk you and your virgin Mary".
Poetry
THIS MACEDONIAN SUN
[The National flag]
By Spero Thompson
Patriots rose and fell in the llinden uprising
Turks holocaust villages, hope flees the land
Greeks, Serbs, and Bulgars drive out the Ottomans
Partitioning of Macedonia, their Balkan war prize demand
Europe’s power struggles bring a darkness of night
Ilinden, Balkan, World wars; repeatedly Macedonia is overrun
Sunrise overcomes night, announcing a new day
In 1991 history records the rising of the Macedonian Sun
Macedonia’s twentieth century featured bloodshed and hope
Began in bloodshed, ending in independence, hope realized
A standard is raised to represent and identify themselves
By symbol and colour, their nationhood is visualized
For so long a people oppressed and suppressed
Now masters of their own house and land
A century of, sultanate, monarchy, communism then autonomy
Today under their own flag they stand
The Macedonian Sun, a boldly emblazoned flag
On a field of red, a golden risen sun
The sun signifies a new day of self –rule
Red, for a history written in blood, a memorandum
A banner derived from their ancient heraldic emblem
Eyes see… 'we are a people' its proclamation
Proud emigrant sons and daughters see it fly
World acknowledged, flag of their mother nation
Historically, countries play leading or supportive roles
Now Macedonia is cast in a modern part
Ally to all who pursue peace and democracy
The Macedonian Sun, their pledge of national heart
Reader, listener, understand the meaning of this flag
With both prospect and retrospect you will see
The sun looks ahead, to a new era begun
Red, looks back on blood, sacrificed for country
This century, as nations strive, ideology against ideology
Fly in honour and freedom, oh Macedonian Sun
Until all flags are lowered, required no more
When His kingdom come, Gods will be done
R.I.P
It was on a Sunday when we were engaged
1946 was the start of another war and nothing was said
I said good bye not knowing what was in store
For the many years of battles I just could not think anymore
The dark and cold nights turned to weeks then to years
Long time neighbors were no longer considered my peers
One day we received word that the battle was over and to head home
Only to find I was no longer welcome and stood alone
They told me she was dead or maybe another big lie
For the battles we fought was for them to survive
I left the village for one last time in search of a new start
For there are no winners of war they just R.I.P. families apart.
Alex
From the Archives
Intensive Assimilation in Northern Greece
There are no Macedonians but there are swarms of day-care centers for Macedonian children in Northern Greece!?
Ethnic Macedonian children in Northern Greece who attend kindergarten and day care centers have the honour of being sent to school earlier than their peers because they don’t speak the Greek language. In the last decade or so there has been an increase in the number of kindergartens and day-care centers opened for pre-school children in cities and villages where Macedonians live in larger numbers. For example in the city Kalamata in the Peloponnesus there are only two day-care centers for 60,000 residents. In Athens there are only ten whereas in Lerin (Florina), Voden (Edesa), Kostur (Kastoria) and other places in Northern Greece there are 48 day-care centers and new ones are constantly being opened. Three year old children have a problem understanding the Greek language because at home they speak mainly Macedonian.
“If there are no Macedonians existing in Greece then why is there a need to teach Macedonian children the Greek language so early in their lives” says Paul Stojkov, a Macedonian from Canada. The idea of sending these very young children to school at such an early age is a well concocted plan by the Greek government which always looks for ways to assimilate the Macedonians. By separating the children from their families at a very young age, the Greek government hopes that they will never have the chance to learn the Macedonian language which is a constant reminder that they are not Greeks. Petros Vasiliadis, member of the VINOZHITO party, says that the Greek government’s aim for opening so many kindergartens and day-care centers is to separate the children from their families and put an end the Macedonian spirit.
The trend for opening kindergartens and day-care centers in Northern Greece began in the 1980’s and has continued to this day. The aim is clear, the Greek government wants the children to only learn the Greek language.
Greek educational institutions seem to be receiving continuous criticism from European governments for not teaching the children of the various ethnic minorities, including those of the Macedonian minority, their mother tongue. All attempts to educate the Macedonian children in their mother tongue were thwarted by all political parties which will not allow any other languages outside of Greek to be taught in Greece.
Members of the Macedonian minority in Greece say that the nationalistic politics of Greece are deeply entrenched in the Greek educational system. Greeks do not recognize the existence of minorities and will not allow minorities to speak or to be educated in their own language even though according to all European conventions, they have a right to.
Feedback
Hello Risto
Thank you for this article and the many other articles that you forward to me. I agree that the whole world needs to know the truth about Macedonia and the fact that we exist. As you know this is a theme in many of my poems. It is up to us the exiled Diaspora to make this happen. We have great power. We can not expect the Macedonians from Greek occupied Macedonia to take a major stance. They are too oppressed and down trodden. The people who remember the atrocities against Macedonians are getting too old. People are simply trying to survive under difficult political and economic situations, as are the Macedonians in Bulgaria and Albania.
The Macedonians in the Republic are presently too preoccupied with other political and national matters. However we in the Diaspora are in an excellent position to increase the world’s awareness of the Macedonian people, identity, history and denied rights. I like your idea of a mass demonstration. However for the world to notice us they need to take place around the world. On the same day and time if possible, in the major cities. They also need to be peaceful demonstrations, depicting our culture and educating the world of our existence. Banners should carry slogans such as “We are Macedonians, no one can deny our existence” and “I am a Macedonian, from Greek occupied Macedonia”. (Thank you for this term, which I often use when referring to my part of Macedonia). “I am a Macedonian and I exist” How about “Me a Greek? No thank you!”. It would be so much fun thinking up slogans.
At the early stages of the campaign, I believe that there should not be banners saying “Greeks do not exist”. Simply because this would not be believable to most people, as the Greek propaganda is too well entrenched for this to be believed. After all they have managed to convince many of us to question our identity. Some Macedonians are even convinced that they are Greek. In fact they have convinced the whole world with their lies and romanticized fabricated idea of what is Greece. A too aggressive initial attack will weaken our plight, as there would be resistance from the world’s population, which we are trying to educate to understand our situation. It would even detract from the messages that we are trying to convey. Only after the world populations are beginning to have doubts about the Greeks, and Greece is starting to lose some of its false façade, should we attack with banners reading “Greeks do not exist” or “Greek heritage is a myth”, etc.
We need strategies. There should be committees in every state, territory and city working on this campaign, in all the countries where Macedonians live, outside of the four parts of Macedonia. There has to be mass media coverage for maximum effect. Further, when the people of the oppressed occupied parts of Macedonia see in the media what their fellow Macedonians, outside of Macedonian soil are doing, it will give them greater confidence and they will feel less isolated and abandoned. Therefore it may give them greater courage to do whatever they can towards their plight for recognition.
These “committees” for want of a better word, should have the very best people in them, who are logical, genuine and passionate about the Macedonian cause. The committees should not only include men, but also women and Macedonian youth representatives.
Perhaps the campaign could cover:
1. The awareness of Macedonians as a separate nation, with its own culture and history.
2. Attempts to draw back the Macedonians who self identify as Greek or Bulgarian in the Diaspora.
3. Then the weaknesses and the propaganda of the Greeks and Bulgarians could be addressed, with banners as you suggested stating “Greeks do not exist”, etc.
For the above to be achieved it could take several years. Therefore there would need to be annual world wide demonstrations over several years.
Apart from any major demonstrations as mentioned above, we need to inform the people in our daily lives as to who we are. Not give mixed messages. We need to promote ourselves and culture. Greece does. It even promotes our songs, dances, culture and history as theirs.
What does this mean in our daily lives as Macedonians: Invite non Macedonians to our dances and cultural events and therefore not be too insular; do not carry our Greek imposed names and revert to our Macedonian names; when someone calls us Greek, correct them in a calm informative way; not get drawn into heated arguments with Greeks about our identity. After all we have the truth on our side. We calmly simply state our case. Generally we need to speak our truth whenever we can. If we convince in our daily lives small groups who know us and our integrity about the truth of who we are, collectively we can make a big difference. This could go a long way towards our fight for our rights. As a result demonstrations will have a greater impact. We may even get the sympathy of non Macedonians who may wish to join our demonstrations and therefore increase our numbers. We need to market ourselves. The Greeks have marketed themselves on untruths and have succeeded, so imagine what we could do, considering we do have the truth on our side. To be successful, we need to educate the world and no longer remain a secret, as our occupiers want us to be.
A couple of other comments I want to make: When I commenced my poetry readings at the front of a group of non Macedonian writers, academics etc., hardly anybody knew anything about the truth of Macedonia. Many if they even gave Macedonia a thought, simply believed the Greek propaganda. Now after hearing several of my poems on Macedonia, I am sure that if they saw a demonstration relating to Macedonia, they would have a different view of the Greek and Macedonian conflict.
The second point I would like to stress is, it disheartens me when I watch utube postings by Macedonians relating to Macedonia and Greece, and bad language is used referring to Greeks. I realize people are angry and frustrated, but let us keep our dignity. We do not need to swear. After all we have the truth on our side. Let us use the truth in our persuasions instead of swear words. Swear words are more likely to turn people off, rather than convey what we need the world to know about Macedonia and Macedonians.
Regards,
Lita
Dear Risto,
What can be done to get out of the “name” impasse?
We should aim at enlightening the neutral the uninformed about the Macedonian and Greek past. The Asians and Africans know the truth.
The Slavs know the truth. Most of the Catholics are on our side, Jews are on our side.
So, where do we direct our cannons?
EEC, especially those that created modern Greece to tell them about their lies.
You cannot convince the Greeks otherwise because 200 years worth of propaganda has been pumped against Macedonia. Anti-Slav and anti-Russian propaganda!
Today we live in a new world; nothing can be hidden, the day of the Internet and electronic speed.
Hit the French at their root, you cannot fight with Greek idiots, brainwashed nuts.
Their foundations will sink when the whole world ignores them.
What Democracy? Greece invented Tromocracy and Tyranny.
Manoly
Dear Risto,
I have written a letter to one of the professors at the University of Thessalonica, regarding changing of Macedonia’s name:
“The names you have proposed for Macedonia with qualifiers are silly and nonsensical. You have really been outed for your silliness and stupidity. You are saying there are no Macedonians and you deny it all the time, also you deny Macedonians existed when you invaded and occupied their Macedonian territory. Why did you not object to the name Republic of Macedonia when it was registered in 1944?
Also look at this and tell me if Macedonians are the same as Greeks:
I just read the book "Alexander the Great" by
Nick McCarty. It says that the Greeks regarded the Macedonians as "barbarians" that
is that they regarded them as non Greek. Note: Unlike the Greek army the
Macedonians had a distinct way of fighting, using a 15 foot long spear
called the sarissa.
In 351 bc, Demosthenes gave his first warning about the dangers of the
Macedonian threat to Greek democracy. The speeches he made against the Macedonians
called the "Phillipcs" demonstrate that the Macedonians were foreigners.
If Macedonians and Greeks were the same people why did Demosthenes offer
practical help to the Thebans by providing them with arms to fight the Macedonians?
When Alexander succeeded his father to the throne Demosthenes told the Athenians
that Alexander was a braggart and of no consequence. Also he persuaded the Greeks
to depose Alexander from his leadership of the Greek League. Demosthenes was
against Alexander so much that he was hoping and cheered hoping he would be killed
at the battle of Issus. Demosthenes had a huge hatred for Alexander as Alexander
was a non Greek and he hated the fact that he was Macedonian and the way he wielded
power.
In the battle at Chaeronia the Athenians were fighting against the
Macedonians and thought that it would be easy to beat the Macedonians. But it
was a huge slaughter where the Macedonians won so swiftly and Demosthenes
ran away and according to Plutarch he ran away in complete and utter disgrace.
This proves without a doubt that Macedonians and Greeks were not the
same people otherwise why would they fight one another? Was this a civil war?
To this date, no one has called it a civil war!
Stop lying to everyone especially to your own people and own up to the
truth!!
You have to apologize to the Macedonian people for what you have done and
give back everything that you took from them as it was not yours in the first
place as you never ever set foot in Macedonia prior to 1913! You have no rights
in Macedonia but you have done a lot of wrongs which you need to right.
Respectfully
George
Dear Risto,
It is natural to disagree on some topics, because most of the comments are biased and truth becomes fogged and obscured.
You made the statement that Hellenic movement started with the intention to drive out the Turks.
Manoly's view is that Turko-Greko relations were cemented by the West to drive out Macedonians. How many wars did the West wage against Russia?
The West invented Hellenism in order to bar Macedonia’s claim to antiquity, at the same time barring Russia's claim to Alexander’s heritage. Moscow "The Third Rome".
All the Balkan people spoke about Alexander, his deeds and accomplishments. They all dream that Alexander will be re-born.
From Russia started the Balkan movement inspired by Macedonian Generals.
I lived in Romania and I know their oral and written traditions, later humiliated by the "Phanariots".
They are proud to be called MACEDO-Romans.
The Romanian highest academics were Macedo-Romans.
After 1913 all that literature was buried.
I can't argue with anybody, because they don't know the truth.
To praise the Illuminati spirit is fashionable. Otherwise you lost your academic job.
One professor from Wisconsin told me: 'I bar my student to read Wikipedia."
Best wishes,
Manoly
E-mail(s) of the Month
From: John A
I don't think you understand how ridiculous you sound. Stop embarrassing yourself and your Slavic brothers & sisters, and accept the obvious TRUTH, that you are Slavic people who lived in a geographical area called Macedonia starting from about 300 AD and on, and you came to call yourselves Macedonians speaking a Slavic language that can be understood in its entirety by your Bulgarian brothers, entirely!!!
There is nothing wrong with this and you do have the right to call yourselves Slavic Macedonians, every one understands this including many, many level headed Greeks.
I would suggest that you get a life and a real job.
Quotable Quotes
“Today's Modern "Hellenic" culture is a
fraud - it's manufactured, it's a government project. It has absolutely
nothing to do with cultural continuity and everything to do with European
historical naiveté.
Too bad if you think about it, the real history of Greece and the Southern
Balkans was completely destroyed by the dumb Arvanovlach and their Bavarian masters.”
(Maknews)
“The ominous prophecy of Harilaos Trikoupis, Greek Prime
Minister from 1882 to 1895, foretold what the neighboring Greek state had
in mind for Macedonia and its people:
“When the Great War comes, Macedonia will become Greek or Bulgarian, according
to who wins. If it is taken by the Bulgarians, they will make the population
Slavs. If we take it, we will make all of them Greeks”. (Kate, http://makedonika.wordpress.com/2008/06/30/the-book-that-should-not-exist-macedonian-greek-lexicon-from-1907-continued/ )
Humour
A little Greek boy is in the kitchen when his Greek
mother is baking. The Greek child starts to speak some Macedonian words
he learned from a Macedonian friend. He looks at his Greek mom and says, "KA
KO SI!"
His Greek mother slaps him and tells him to tell that to his Greek father,
and the Greek boy says "KA KO SI!"
The Greek father slaps his son and sends him to his Greek grandmother.
Before he talks she slaps him too!
He goes down to his Greek mother and she says, "Now what did you learn
from all of this?"
The Greek boy responds: "I have been Macedonian for five minutes and
I already hate you damn Greeks!"
Posted by The LION will ROAR from http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/
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